adan Posted May 27, 2013 Share #521 Posted May 27, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... except the M bayonet mount's register distance (also called flange distance) is 27.8 mm. The Leica thread mount's is 28.8 mm. D'oh - correct. I didn't read the reference closely enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 Hi adan, Take a look here Mini M? [MERGED] AKA X-Vario. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
IkarusJohn Posted May 27, 2013 Share #522 Posted May 27, 2013 Not even I am suggesting the register distance will change, quite the contrary; I am saying the registerdistance will need a certain thickness. 29 mm for the register, say 2,5 for the sensor/motherboard and 2.5 for the LCD assembly, makes a total thickness of 34 mm minimum. The rest is design tricks like letting the mount protrude.So, if one wants to make a camera that is thinner, it needs a shorter register and thus a new lens line. But as the register gets shorter the wideangles get more and more complicated with an interchangeable mount. That is the reason the RX-1 has an integrated lens - it forms a module together with the sensor design. You assume the register is reduced and the rest maintained. Poor assumption - NEX is an example. Edit - sorry. Just saw Olaf's response. Jaap, I'd take your doubts about the camera more seriously if you weren't so dismissive of what might be possible. The distance between the exit pupil and sensor is a given - the rest isn't. Removing the optical mechanism would have some savings in size - what can be done with electronics is impressive - particularly if the only price is a protruding barrel on the mount to maintain that distance. I'd be comfortable with that ... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 27, 2013 Share #523 Posted May 27, 2013 No - I am assuming that a new lens line would be needed for a shorter register and an adapter for M lenses. That does not seem likely - so the lens mount would be in the same place as an M, and that would have design consequences for the thickness. Don't you think they would have reduced the M240 down to the thickness of a film M if that were possible? But they didn't which to me means the sensor-motherboard array plus LCD assembly cannot be reduced down to something like one or two mm. I never suggested that Leica would would be unable to design lenses for a shorter register - I don't know where the assumption I did comes from... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 27, 2013 Share #524 Posted May 27, 2013 No - I am assuming that a new lens line would be needed for a shorter register and an adapter for M lenses. That does not seem likely... That does more and more i'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted May 27, 2013 Share #525 Posted May 27, 2013 We know, Bill, we know. Another "amused observation", aka Apple hatred, even on a seemingly silly post. No battle, perhaps, just extreme avoidance, and repeated proclamation. Pavlovian. Jeff Do kindly get your foot off my throat for making a factual statement. It really is quite worrying the extent to which you track my posts for months or years past to make a point... Regards, Bill Sent from another Galaxy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 27, 2013 Share #526 Posted May 27, 2013 Then we come back to a camera with a different mount and presumably no rangefinder - that leaves little justification to call it an M... Let alone the need to buy new lenses for the AF. It would provide little buying incentive over Sony and Fuji - hmmm....Leica is not known for building me-too cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted May 27, 2013 Share #527 Posted May 27, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Has it been a success? If the measure of "success" is business growth, than it would appear that Sony (and others) have failed. There's been dramatic decline. What are you talking about ? The Nex series has been a phenominal success Mirrorless is making strong inroads into the DSLR market and Nex are one of the top companies, particularly considering the cost of their cameras vs the others (20% of Japanese market in 2012) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205247-mini-m-merged-aka-x-vario/?do=findComment&comment=2331638'>More sharing options...
lct Posted May 27, 2013 Share #528 Posted May 27, 2013 Then we come back to a camera with a different mount and presumably no rangefinder - that leaves little justification to call it an M... Would not be my cup of tea as a diehard RF user but the G2 had a so-called electronic rangefider if memory serves. Imagine a better one, add to this an hybrid VF with LED framelines possibly and we get more or less what a future M could be... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 27, 2013 Share #529 Posted May 27, 2013 So, if one wants to make a camera that is thinner, it needs a shorter register and thus a new lens line. Not so. The M(240) is pretty much the same thickness of the M9, apparently (if one excludes the protruding thumb rest over the mode dial). If the optics are removed, and the battery housed in the grip (like the NEX and others), then it seems to me that a smaller camera (overall) with a full frame sensor and M mount is possible. But then, this means nothing if they go for an X2 with zoom, or a fixed lens - bad idea on both counts. Or worse, M4/3 ... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted May 27, 2013 Share #530 Posted May 27, 2013 Not a box shaped pinhole camera, it seems. The illustration on the homepage now shows a box which is just a little bit open. "Teaser", indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reminic Posted May 27, 2013 Share #531 Posted May 27, 2013 After having read the thread, and even if I'm not that versed into the Leica culture, I think I'll dive into the fun too with my own guess, which I'll keep simple: M (M-mount FF), AF (no RF). Because that would fits what I perceive as Leica's goals: 1% marketshare... ...selling lenses (body canibalization is not an issue)... ...with evolution, not revolution (i.e. reusing existing technologies). The M is already surrounded by AF technology (both X and S are AF), and AF is a requirement to get that 1% marketshare, as the good RF-ready folks are far too little in numbers for that (hence the "M"aster meaning)... That would also be supported by the fact that I can see two explanations to that "all are Ms" picture: - It allows to nickname it "Mini-M" which is great to build expectations (that's working well!), - It helps prepare afficionados' spirits to the idea that a Leica M-mount body doesn't necesseraly have to equal RF anymore (even if the flagship body is likely to remain RF for a long time). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted May 27, 2013 Share #532 Posted May 27, 2013 Not a box shaped pinhole camera, it seems. The illustration on the homepage now shows a box which is just a little bit open. "Teaser", indeed. If the illustration is enlarged, there appears to be no rangefinder and the camera height seems to be the same as that of the X2 - assuming the back of the box is visible. Thus an M minus rangefinder appears to be a possibility? dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 27, 2013 Share #533 Posted May 27, 2013 Or do we see an RF window and a ca 3mm lens mount ring? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted May 27, 2013 Share #534 Posted May 27, 2013 Or do we just see what we want to see...? My hat is off to Leica marketing. I'm off to take some pics. Regards, Bill Sent from another Galaxy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 27, 2013 Share #535 Posted May 27, 2013 Exactly Happy shooting! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted May 27, 2013 Share #536 Posted May 27, 2013 'Box clever' has taken on a new dimension Little by little we will have a better idea soon dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tanks Posted May 27, 2013 Share #537 Posted May 27, 2013 ...But then, this means nothing if they go for an X2 with zoom, or a fixed lens - bad idea on both counts. Or worse, M4/3 ... ... Why would an X2 with a fixed zoom would be a bad idea? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 27, 2013 Share #538 Posted May 27, 2013 Why would an X2 with a fixed zoom would be a bad idea? Because a zoomed X2 (to say, an APS-C camera), does not fill the gap between M and X2, as the Leica page suggests... a X2 with a zoom in the 24-80 equiv. range can have a cost of max 1,25 - 1,4x (let's say...) the X2... lot of distance from M. This doesn't mean that a zoomed X2 is a bad idea in itself... but I don't think it is the 11th June announcement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott997 Posted May 27, 2013 Share #539 Posted May 27, 2013 Good...you'll be getting it just in time to put in your preorder for the M11;) Oh thats already in buddy. Don't you know how to play the Leica game yet? I'm also on the list for a 35 Noctilux if that day ever comes, I'll be ready. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 27, 2013 Share #540 Posted May 27, 2013 Do kindly get your foot off my throat for making a factual statement. It really is quite worrying the extent to which you track my posts for months or years past to make a point... Your Apple rebuffs are so frequent and consistent that tracking is hardly necessary. It was only days ago when you last said that Apple wasn't a battle for you, just a source of amusement. Sure. We get it....if Leica migrates to Apple, you're not interested. Duh. One of the endless sources of amusement in this forum in general is the extent to which topics are predictable (this whole thread, for instance), as well as numerous individual points of view. You needn't isolate yourself; after a while one can anticipate dozens of comments from folks before they happen, including from me. It's what makes for this sometimes soap opera. You needn't worry; we're all characters in the show; ads now appearing for the June 11 episode. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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