AndrewDD Posted March 19, 2015 Share #81 Posted March 19, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) "I tried a full reformat, with "overwrite" - which took about 45 minutes. I then took 1000 pictures machine-gunning the opposite wall of my living room with no lockups. I took 2000 last night on a shoot with no lockup" "I obviously have to schedule a 45 minute SD card reformat before every shoot!" How did you do the Overwrite/Format? I usually just Format in the camera...(never the via the computer) They are options on SDFormatter. It was recommended on this thread as being a lot better than formatting in the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Hi AndrewDD, Take a look here M (240) freezes up and exposure issues. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
LocalHero1953 Posted March 19, 2015 Share #82 Posted March 19, 2015 I had one of my occasional lockups the other day. No EVF, no LV, normal temperature, single shot mode, first shot after a good many minutes. I use SanDisk Extreme Pro cards, formatted periodically with SD Formatter, formatted after every download in camera. I'm coming to the conclusion that the first cause of this is mechanical and shutter related, though possibly exacerbated/influenced by firmware settings. I can't see how such random lock up behaviour, both in one camera and between cameras can be caused by firmware on its own; furthermore, Leica seems to have a practice of replacing the shutter on particularly persistently troublesome cameras. I suspect some tolerances or clearances are just a bit too tight, and occasionally catch. If this is correct, there is unlikely to be a real fix until the next M comes along. I still have nearly a year of Passport to go, so I'll keep monitoring. Of course this is all speculation based on minimal evidence, but what else have we to go on? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornnb Posted March 19, 2015 Share #83 Posted March 19, 2015 I'm coming to the conclusion that the first cause of this is mechanical and shutter related, though possibly exacerbated/influenced by firmware settings. I can't see how such random lock up behaviour, both in one camera and between cameras can be caused by firmware on its own; furthermore, Leica seems to have a practice of replacing the shutter on particularly persistently troublesome cameras. I suspect some tolerances or clearances are just a bit too tight, and occasionally catch. If this is correct, there is unlikely to be a real fix until the next M comes along. I still have nearly a year of Passport to go, so I'll keep monitoring. Of course this is all speculation based on minimal evidence, but what else have we to go on? If it was a shutter issue, how come pulling out the battery fixes it? If pulling out the battery works it should be possible to make a work around in firmware. I think it is related to the SD cards, it only seems to happen when writing to cards. Which means it's either a hardware issue in the SD card reader, or a software bug that Leica has yet to figure out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted March 19, 2015 Share #84 Posted March 19, 2015 If it was a shutter issue, how come pulling out the battery fixes it? If pulling out the battery works it should be possible to make a work around in firmware. I claim no special insight, but I can envisage a linkage trying to move where another element of the mechanism blocks it; when power is removed the link falls back into its original place. The thought was provoked by this thread for the M8: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/21331-anatomy-leica-m8.html And in particular by this post and subsequent ones: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/21331-anatomy-leica-m8.html#post224642 No discussion of the risk of lock-ups in the M8, but I guess the mechanism in the M240 will be equally, if not more dependent on fine tolerances and clearances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted March 19, 2015 Share #85 Posted March 19, 2015 This seems very plausible. It would be reasonable for the firmware to ignore most interrupts while taking a photograph so if it's waiting for the shutter to finish opening and the shutter is mechanically stuck, then only taking out the battery would work to reset everything. Perhaps we can test this hypothesis - shake the camera while pressing the shutter release button; it may lock up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 20, 2015 Share #86 Posted March 20, 2015 If they are shutter related, which seems a reasonable theory, you would not have thought it was beyond the wit of man or even Wetzlar gnomes, to write a sub-routine in the firmware, so that a double button press and hold, (maybe movie and info) performed a reset on the shutter, without having to pop the battery. The lock ups in compliance with Murphy's Law, always occur at the time of maximum inconvenience. I think some folks are saying that pressing and holding the movie button sometimes resets but I have not tried this as yet myself. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornnb Posted March 20, 2015 Share #87 Posted March 20, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) If they are shutter related, which seems a reasonable theory, you would not have thought it was beyond the wit of man or even Wetzlar gnomes, to write a sub-routine in the firmware, so that a double button press and hold, (maybe movie and info) performed a reset on the shutter, without having to pop the battery. The lock ups in compliance with Murphy's Law, always occur at the time of maximum inconvenience. I think some folks are saying that pressing and holding the movie button sometimes resets but I have not tried this as yet myself. Wilson If it is the shutter then it is entirely fixable in firmware and may be easier to fix than issues wit the SD card. All you need is for the firmware to be able to detect a shutter 'jam' and to reset it in a similar fashion to what occurs when you remove the battery. It's a digital camera, the shutter is a dumb piece of hardware that is being controlled by software running on the CPU. If the shutter is the cause of the freezing, it is because it is behaving in a way the software was not programmed to handle. An issue with the SD card could just be software or it could be an issue with the hardware SD reader. A hardware issue with the chip that handles the SD card may be difficult to fix via firmware. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
don daniel Posted March 22, 2015 Share #88 Posted March 22, 2015 I always format my SD cards in camera. I've had several freeze ups using a Sundisk Extreme Pro 8GB without using liveview. Since I have been using a Sundisk Extreme Pro 32GB card I'haven't had any problems. I don't know why. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack-tucker Posted April 5, 2015 Share #89 Posted April 5, 2015 Hi everybody, I read a lot about those lockups or freezes before I bought my M-P and therefore was warned. I didn't experience all too many of them, but of course, always then when it was particular inconvenient, e.g. while standing in a river, trying not to slip while taking pictures... Still I could live with it and it didn't bother me much. Yesterday I did some fashion pictures with a group of models, something I had never done before and I took a lot of photos in a higher rate then usual - With the result that I had finally three or for lockups in a raw with just about 20 successful pictures in between. I solved it by taking the battery out, which I have become quite fast in, but still it was disturbing and almost embarrassing. Back home I formatted my Memory cards in use (one 64GB Sundisk Extreme Pro, 95MB/sec, and some slower Sundisk Cards with 16GB and a speed of 45MB/sec) with SD Formatter. Also, I changed my menu preset to DNG compressed. Today I did some test shots, in a higher rate then I would normally do, both with single exposure and serial exposure. No problems anymore, even when keeping the shutter pressed for maybe 20 shots or more. I don't know how it will behave in a longer time, but for now I think, formatting and changing to DNG compressed could be the solution. I would be interested to hear if it could solve the problem for others, as well... Regards, Florian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack-tucker Posted April 5, 2015 Share #90 Posted April 5, 2015 Oh, and I have never used live view or an electronic viewfinder... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted April 6, 2015 Share #91 Posted April 6, 2015 I do not compress and do not intend to do so. Could you also do some tests to see if you are lockup free uncompressed, please? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted April 6, 2015 Share #92 Posted April 6, 2015 I format my cards regularly, use DNG compressed, no EVF/LV, but still have occasional lockups. The last one was just a one-off shot, not in a sequence. It depends on the phase of the moon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted April 12, 2015 Share #93 Posted April 12, 2015 Paul Let me know which moon pohase I should avoid. I will then plan my long photographic trips around these phases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikiphoto Posted April 12, 2015 Share #94 Posted April 12, 2015 Add me to the list of sufferers. I haven't experienced it before in over a year of ownership but it has happened on two days running , more than one occasion each day. All required a battery pull. Usually a few quick shots before it happens. Sandisk Extreme Pro 64mb card, same as always. Reformatted in camera after each download. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns_ng Posted April 14, 2015 Share #95 Posted April 14, 2015 The first time my M240 lock-up was in Inner Mongolia where the temperature was around -25C. I attributed this to the extreme temperature. But a few months later when I was in Ethiopia, I experienced a couple of lock-ups when using the EVF. Recently, the same thing happened when using the EVF as well. As for cards, I used Sandisk, Lexar and Sony. They seemed to work fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 14, 2015 Share #96 Posted April 14, 2015 Read the manual. Lowest operating temperature 0 C. All cameras have limits like this. Of course it will stop working at low temperatures, as you mention. Using a thick rubberized DSLR will work better at such low temperatures as it will take longer to cool down internally, especially the battery . An M camera will literally freeze faster. Keeping a warm battery in your pocket and swapping it out from time to time will help. The high-temperature lockup issue is well documented and has been resolved with the latest firmware, fortunately. My camera behaved impeccably in Mozambique and Kenia last October using the EVF. The lockup that posters are reporting in this thread are apparently random and cannot be correlated to a common factor. Very puzzling. To Leica as well, I am sure, as this kind of thing never happens when testing tha camera in Wetzlar, according to Sod's Law. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns_ng Posted April 15, 2015 Share #97 Posted April 15, 2015 The M240 did surprisingly well at -25C in Inner Mongolia. During the 3 days I was there it locked up only once. It was the same in Ethiopia, when I was at the Danakil Depression. Temperature reached 50C and the M240 locked up once during my 2-day stay in that region. The last lock up I had was during my trip to Turkey in Feb this year. It wasn't that cold, about 5C, but it locked up only once during my 9-day trip. It appears to lock up only when I am using my EVF and even then it is random. It never locked up when I am not using the EVF. And it has the latest firmware. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlinman Posted April 15, 2015 Share #98 Posted April 15, 2015 My lock ups happend 99% with EVF and very often with the auto-zoom function. (Newest FW, Single shot, normal temperature, SanDisk Extreme Pro 64, SD Formater) Leica had checked the camera and they said that it is a FW issue. They will fix it with the next update. But no idea when... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoanP Posted May 26, 2015 Share #99 Posted May 26, 2015 Well, I just shipped my 9 month old Leica M240 to New Jersey for what I hope is an accurate diagnosis and repair. My issue is when the camera was turned on it would not meter and LED would only show "0.0" It would briefly show meter arrow for about a second and then default to "0.0" in the OVF. LIve view would show accurate metering and pictures were fine in LIve View both on the back of the camera and with the Olympus finder. I rarely used the Olympus finder. Also, the scroll wheel would not function other than to change the exposure compensation value but no way to tell what EC if not in LIve View. The camera was used frequently for 9 months with no issues whatsoever so this is a huge disappointment to have to send it for repair. This is my first Leica and I love to use it more than any other camera (have two high end Nikons). I had a brief struggle today considering whether to buy a Sony A7ii to use with my Leica lens as I know some do but decided against it since I already own to perfectly good Nikon DSLRs with an assortment of Nikon lens. I have only been using the Nikons for bird photography and Macro. After reading about all the problems people are having with their digital Leica's it makes me wonder if I made a huge mistake in buying this camera along with 4 lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted May 26, 2015 Share #100 Posted May 26, 2015 Joan - sounds like a simple glitch. I think I would have tried taking battery out and retrying and/or reloading firmware before sending in. Perhaps you did of course . Hope it is sorted soon, but one tiff should not spoil the relationship you describe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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