xrogers Posted January 29, 2013 Share #121 Posted January 29, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Black and white live view or EVF in black and white. Seeing the world real time in black and white. Pure win for B&W photography Whoa. I'm imagining a Monochrom in a few years based off the new M, where you can put filters on and see the results directly in the EVF or rear screen. I better start saving up now, a replacement car can easily wait another few years. I'm looking forward to seeing black and white from the new M, but it won't have the gorgeous, artifact free output of the Monochrom. It is beautiful, even (maybe especially) at high ISO. One of each, the only sane answer. Maybe if I sell the car I have and go with just the bike...oops, got to go, SWMBO is looking at me... Later, Clyde Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Hi xrogers, Take a look here First M240 RAW files released.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted January 29, 2013 Share #122 Posted January 29, 2013 If the performance is as good as it looks now i would certainly think this cam will be a much better choice for B&W photography than even the MM Errr... no. The essence of the MM is the leaving out of the Bayer filter. The M240 is still a Bayer-filtered camera, so the B&W performance of the 240 may be better than the M9 (by no means certain; the M8 is better than the M9 for instance) but the MM will still reign as a specialist. You will have to get both for the best of both worlds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted January 29, 2013 Share #123 Posted January 29, 2013 I'm not sure if you will be able to see Jono's photos on Facebook, and I would never repost them without permission, but I will say that from what I can see he is doing an excellent job of putting the M240 through it's paces by capturing images in extreme lighting conditions in the Italian Alps. Some of Jono's shots remind me of the amazing work done by D. Paul Wolff in 1930s Germany as documented in "Meine Erfahrungen mit der Leica". HI There Thanks for the kind words Stephen, my holiday snaps on facebook are just that (and are only visible to my friends) - and they're taken variously with my OMD, X2 and M9, of course not with the M240. All the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted January 29, 2013 Share #124 Posted January 29, 2013 Jono, I would have thought so but thanks for clarifying. This thread has so many attempts at reading of tea leaves on the basis of the Rohde M images that have been posted that there is not much meaningful in terms if information — as several posters have stated all this is unfortunate for Leica. While I don't doubt Leica's ability to produce a great camera in the M240, I would advise everyone to wait until there are pictures from this camera by competent photographers or testers, or until the camera comes out, before reaching conclusions. Reading tea leaves is just too medieval. —Mitch/Chiang Mai Lanka Footsteps [M-Monochrom /Sri Lanka] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted January 29, 2013 Share #125 Posted January 29, 2013 In black and white photography the M Monochrom still reigns supreme and the M won’t change that. In terms of absolute acuity this may be true, but some photographers may have different priorities. Isn't it possible that the M will give us a better compromise between the acuity of the Monochrom and the management of colour channels of the M9, for example? And if its noise performance eats into another of the Monochrom's advantages a little whilst allowing real-time filter-monitoring then some will find it a uniquely creative tool for B&W. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted January 29, 2013 Share #126 Posted January 29, 2013 Peter, without a doubt some people will prefer the M240, indeed the same way that some people now prefer the M9 to the M-Monochrom for B&W for the same reasons. While I won't speculate about B&W from the M240, my own experience with the M-Monochrom is that it offers a lot more than acuity. The fact that the DNG files do not need interpolation makes them much more robust than M9 files and there are also differences in gradation and the general feel of the files. Obviously, having a camera that does color as well is an advantage for most people, but the M-Monochom is, at this point unique and, for me, the game is worth the candle. —Mitch/Chiang Mai Lanka Footsteps [M-Monochrom/Sri Lanka] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted January 29, 2013 Share #127 Posted January 29, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) A suggestion to us all, based on one known fact: Ming Thein was spotted and photographed (at a mid-January gallery showing of his photography hosted by Leica's KL store-within-a-store) with an M-240 on his shoulder. Several of us will remember that, at about the same time Jono posted Monochrom images last spring, Ming posted a very informative and well-done preview of the Monochrom's capabilities. I would venture that, given the M-240 on his shoulder two weeks ago, Ming is preparing a detailed report. Rather than over-interpret Dr. Rohde's files, bookmark Ming Thein's site. Check each day. We will get a comprehensive report on this camera's capabilities as soon as Leica waves the checkered flag, I would bet, and Ming is ready for a report that will satisfy our needs. Just a suggestion. (Ming Thein | Photographer). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macjonny1 Posted January 29, 2013 Share #128 Posted January 29, 2013 In terms of absolute acuity this may be true, but some photographers may have different priorities. Isn't it possible that the M will give us a better compromise between the acuity of the Monochrom and the management of colour channels of the M9, for example? And if its noise performance eats into another of the Monochrom's advantages a little whilst allowing real-time filter-monitoring then some will find it a uniquely creative tool for B&W. And I guess that was my overall point. Perhaps overall acuity may be advantage MM but over the M9 you have a new camera with better noise performance/dynamic range, increased resolution, and the live view capability/EVF. When I've worked with my D800E in black and white mode (and other mirrorless cams) the ability to see real time B&W is very nice. I'm not so talented that I can "see" in B&W without the crutch like some of you. It's just another tool that may be very nice for some. Having live view/EVF for wide angle photography without an OVF is a very tempting feature as well. I think for many with the new M arrives it will be a much better choice for B&W photography than the MM, if not in overall IQ then in overall practicality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 29, 2013 Share #129 Posted January 29, 2013 HI ThereThanks for the kind words Stephen, my holiday snaps on facebook are just that (and are only visible to my friends) - and they're taken variously with my OMD, X2 and M9, of course not with the M240. All the best A pity... as an Italian, and a BIG lover of Italian Alps, I had liked the idea that an excellent photographer like you had been the first one to take our superb mountains with the M240... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted January 29, 2013 Share #130 Posted January 29, 2013 A pity... as an Italian, and a BIG lover of Italian Alps, I had liked the idea that an excellent photographer like you had been the first one to take our superb mountains with the M240... Hi There Luigi It was my first time there - we stayed in Sauze d'Oulx - the weather and the snow were wonderful (as for the food and drink (Oh Yes!). All the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted January 29, 2013 Share #131 Posted January 29, 2013 I suppose some of the files are ok but how come all the backgrounds are blurred in the indoor shots? Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 29, 2013 Share #132 Posted January 29, 2013 Isn't it possible that the M will give us a better compromise between the acuity of the Monochrom and the management of colour channels of the M9, for example? And if its noise performance eats into another of the Monochrom's advantages a little whilst allowing real-time filter-monitoring then some will find it a uniquely creative tool for B&W. If you did prefer the M9 before, be it because of its greater versatility or because of the flexible way you could mix its colour channels into different black and white images, then of course you will like the new M even more. But if you valued the M Monochrom for what only a monochrome camera can deliver, the new M won’t tip the scales in the other direction. It isn’t just about acuity (24 MP isn’t that much more than 18 MP anyway) but about noise – you cannot get the same fine-grained noise at high ISO settings from a Bayer sensor. So in my view (based on my experience with both cameras), until Leica offers a monochrome version of the new M, the M Monochrom is still the best camera for black and white. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
horosu Posted January 29, 2013 Share #133 Posted January 29, 2013 It isn’t just about acuity (24 MP isn’t that much more than 18 MP anyway) but about noise – you cannot get the same fine-grained noise at high ISO settings from a Bayer sensor. In a nutshell, this is the main appeal of the Monochrom, IMHO: high-ISO noise. You can get fantastic B&W images using TMax 400 at ISO's up to 800 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted January 29, 2013 Share #134 Posted January 29, 2013 .............. So in my view (based on my experience with both cameras), .............................. I assume by "both cameras" you mean the Monochrom and the M9, not the M, yes? Anyway, I can't argue about your preferences, and why should I? I just wanted to question the absolute assertion that the Monochrom will be the best camera for B&W, when its perfectly possible that for many people, (including serious photographers!) the M may offer tangible advantages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 29, 2013 Share #135 Posted January 29, 2013 I assume by "both cameras" you mean the Monochrom and the M9, not the M, yes? I was referring to the new M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted January 29, 2013 Share #136 Posted January 29, 2013 Anyway, I can't argue about your preferences, and why should I? I just wanted to question the absolute assertion that the Monochrom will be the best camera for B&W, when its perfectly possible that for many people, (including serious photographers!) the M may offer tangible advantages. HI Peter I think that first of all you're going to have to define 'best' . . . . . I like using the channel mixer with my conversions - and I like to keep my options open too - most of all I like to decide whether an image will be colour or black and white when I shoot it (so it's good to have a colour camera in my hand). In terms of noise and 'pure' image quality though - I don't see how a Bayer filter camera can ever compete with a Monochrome camera of similar resolution. (but now we have to define 'pure' ) all the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted January 29, 2013 Share #137 Posted January 29, 2013 Michael, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who actually knows what he's talking about! Have you got the production-ready iteration? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted January 29, 2013 Share #138 Posted January 29, 2013 I don't get it why everyone is attacking Leica for trying this kind of viral marketing approach Via Dr. Rohde. When someone at his credibility speaks everyone should listen (Just as Rick already pointed out). He is not the average Joe of radio shack you know... What I am expecting so far from all this is certainly a better spec camera compared to the current M9/8 models. Obviously Leica still has work to do with the camera to translate all this into great results, but if you have the (technical) foundation to work, you will perform miracles, so I would guess everyones eyes are now on this camera, and they have all a very good reason to be afraid... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted January 29, 2013 Share #139 Posted January 29, 2013 indeed- why bother? Perhaps Mr Rhode's real target audience with all this is his fellow CEO's and such like folk... people who earn an M240 in the time it takes to look at their 40k Rolex... people who would never bother wasting a potentially lucrative, productive and/or enjoyable moment on a forum such as this... an aide can write up a synopsis and give a brief after all... I can't even be bothered looking at the pictures in detail... There is too little to go on. And doesn't this happen with just about every camera released? Some kind of repetitive 'micro-furore' over the supposed image quality or lack therof? Descending into a debate over film V digital or some such. BTW- i bet film looks better than m240 most times... just like it whips Monochrom... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted January 29, 2013 Share #140 Posted January 29, 2013 ....indeed- why bother? Perhaps Mr Rhode's real target audience with all this is his fellow CEO's... For years and years everyone was and still is talking about how Leica M8/9 are behind technology. If that's ever gonna change, I guess it's big news in the ears of every CEO in the business. Not something that can be taken lightly I would also guess, that soon, in another chapter of this specific and welcomed on my part marketing, there will be files showing the potential of this camera. It's just a matter of time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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