earleygallery Posted September 20, 2012 Share #401 Posted September 20, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) We do not know exactly how R lens diaphragms will operate with the proposed adaptor. Will they require stop-down metering? If so how bright will the EVF and LV images be? dunk Actually we do. There is no mechanical or electrical link with the adaptor. It is 6 bit coded to tell the M that the R adaptor is being used, which brings up a menu of 20 R lenses to select from (for exif info and software tweaks). You will use stop down metering, just as if it were a wide M lens and you were using the EVF instead of an optical finder. Andy Barton has said that the viewfinder worked well with focus peaking at f16. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 Hi earleygallery, Take a look here The R solution - more details. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
k-hawinkler Posted September 20, 2012 Share #402 Posted September 20, 2012 Actually we do. There is no mechanical or electrical link with the adaptor. It is 6 bit coded to tell the M that the R adaptor is being used, which brings up a menu of 20 R lenses to select from (for exif info and software tweaks). You will use stop down metering, just as if it were a wide M lens and you were using the EVF instead of an optical finder. Andy Barton has said that the viewfinder worked well with focus peaking at f16. That must depend on what scene you take a picture of, surely! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garside Posted September 20, 2012 Share #403 Posted September 20, 2012 Actually we do. There is no mechanical or electrical link with the adaptor. It is 6 bit coded to tell the M that the R adaptor is being used, which brings up a menu of 20 R lenses to select from (for exif info and software tweaks). You will use stop down metering, just as if it were a wide M lens and you were using the EVF instead of an optical finder. Andy Barton has said that the viewfinder worked well with focus peaking at f16. As a newbie both here and to digital, does this all mean that as I have only R lenses and body, there is not much point waiting for this new 'M' body to become available, with corresponding costs as opposed to buying GXR,NEX or CanoNikon body, FF or otherwise and getting started straight away, I own no 'M' system lenses of any description. If it's stop down metering would that not imply a Leica rangefinder system is simply beyond my immediate needs? As much as I would enjoy using an 'M' (I have an old Yashica GT) I'm beginning to think I'm attempting to run before I can walk and I would be spending a fair amount of money on a camera I'm really not going to take much advantage of,unless I'm so smitten I start selling children to buy 'M' lenses. I too have a trombone 560mm and I think it's a cracking lens for the price, I would ike to use it on simple digital system wherever possible. I was impressed with a former posters bellows/adapter solution to this using the NEX 7 camera. Cheers for reading guys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted September 20, 2012 Share #404 Posted September 20, 2012 As a newbie both here and to digital, does this all mean that as I have only R lenses and body, there is not much point waiting for this new 'M' body to become available, with corresponding costs as opposed to buying GXR,NEX or CanoNikon body, FF or otherwise and getting started straight away,I own no 'M' system lenses of any description. If it's stop down metering would that not imply a Leica rangefinder system is simply beyond my immediate needs? As much as I would enjoy using an 'M' (I have an old Yashica GT) I'm beginning to think I'm attempting to run before I can walk and I would be spending a fair amount of money on a camera I'm really not going to take much advantage of,unless I'm so smitten I start selling children to buy 'M' lenses. I too have a trombone 560mm and I think it's a cracking lens for the price, I would ike to use it on simple digital system wherever possible. I was impressed with a former posters bellows/adapter solution to this using the NEX 7 camera. Cheers for reading guys. You have to factor in the Leica IQ with the new CMOS sensor ... which remains the great unknown until sample images are available. But ... IQ probably has the potential to be superior to that of the M9 and many other cameras too. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 20, 2012 Share #405 Posted September 20, 2012 As a newbie both here and to digital, does this all mean that as I have only R lenses and body, there is not much point waiting for this new 'M' body to become available, with corresponding costs as opposed to buying GXR,NEX or CanoNikon body, FF or otherwise and getting started straight away, IMHO, focus peaking is more likely to give you a reliable indication of correct focus, especially off-center, than the AF-compromised reflex viewing systems of the full-frame CaNikon offerings. If you want full-frame, and focus peaking, I think Sony has (or, will have) something available. I'm very tempted by the NEX-7 but I'd rather it were full-frame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 20, 2012 Share #406 Posted September 20, 2012 As a newbie both here and to digital, does this all mean that as I have only R lenses and body, there is not much point waiting for this new 'M' body to become available, with corresponding costs as opposed to buying GXR,NEX or CanoNikon body, FF or otherwise and getting started straight away, I own no 'M' system lenses of any description. If it's stop down metering would that not imply a Leica rangefinder system is simply beyond my immediate needs?... Compared to other mirrorless cameras the new "M" is the only FF body with a rangefinder and interchangeable lenses in town. Compared to FF DSLRs, focusing should be easier at slow apertures due to auto brightening and focus peaking of the M's EVF. Now if you're used to use your R lenses at fast apertures, the only significant advantage of the "M" would come from the lack of AA filter of its sensor as clear as i can expect but it is pure conjecture from my part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted September 20, 2012 Share #407 Posted September 20, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I get it now... I received the first 3 of the 5 R items I bought yesterday to get started with R stuff on the new camera - 180mm APO Elmarit-R, 60mm Macro-Elmarit-R, APO-Extender-R 2x - and I can see what the fuss is about, why you R-guys were upset at the prospect of these lenses falling into disuse. Of course, I can't tell how things are optically but I can say the build quality is absolutely superb. Thanks to ffordes for decent prices and an honest desacription, they are as close to new as makes no odds. Let's hope the remaining two items are as good... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 20, 2012 Share #408 Posted September 20, 2012 I get it now... I received the first 3 of the 5 R items I bought yesterday to get started with R stuff on the new camera - 180mm APO Elmarit-R, 60mm Macro-Elmarit-R, APO-Extender-R 2x - and I can see what the fuss is about, why you R-guys were upset at the prospect of these lenses falling into disuse. Of course, I can't tell how things are optically but I can say the build quality is absolutely superb. Thanks to ffordes for decent prices and an honest desacription, they are as close to new as makes no odds. Let's hope the remaining two items are as good... Unless there's something seriously wrong with these items I think you'll be as pleased with the optical performance as with the build quality, and doubly understanding of why us R-folks were upset. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted September 20, 2012 Share #409 Posted September 20, 2012 I get it now... I received the first 3 of the 5 R items I bought yesterday to get started with R stuff on the new camera - 180mm APO Elmarit-R, 60mm Macro-Elmarit-R, APO-Extender-R 2x - and I can see what the fuss is about, why you R-guys were upset at the prospect of these lenses falling into disuse. Of course, I can't tell how things are optically but I can say the build quality is absolutely superb. Thanks to ffordes for decent prices and an honest desacription, they are as close to new as makes no odds. Let's hope the remaining two items are as good... I did a search through UK dealers used R lens stocks today and was not surprised to find that only TWO Apo-Extender-R 2X are listed ... I'm fairly sure there were quite a few more a few days ago ... so maybe the New M camera has created a rush on these convertors. There are several on Ebay but at silly high prices. Still loads of the older non-Apo R Extender-R 2x available at dealers but pricing disparity very noticeable. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted September 20, 2012 Share #410 Posted September 20, 2012 It cost a scarcely believeable €1950 in 2008. I paid less than 1/4 of that, less than any of the ones listed on eBay. You didn't find a 28-90 did you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Bee Posted September 20, 2012 Share #411 Posted September 20, 2012 It cost a scarcely believeable €1950 in 2008. I paid less than 1/4 of that, less than any of the ones listed on eBay. You didn't find a 28-90 did you? I bought my "mint" 280 F4 APO two months ago for £1250.00 , yes you guessed it - I'm smiling like the "Cheshire cat" now Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topoxforddoc Posted September 20, 2012 Share #412 Posted September 20, 2012 I bought my "mint" 280 F4 APO two months ago for £1250.00 , yes you guessed it - I'm smiling like the "Cheshire cat" now Simon When I chatted to Dr Kaufmann last saturday at the Goodwood Revival (he is a motor racing fan and his daughter races old Alfas), he said that Leica lost money on every 280/4 APO they made. He added that he would have to sell it at double the previous price to make any money ie £8k. I bought my 280/4 APO some years ago from a Forum member for Euro 1500. That was nearly as good a buy as my Leica UK demo 180/2 Summicron for £2300. Charlie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooky Posted September 20, 2012 Share #413 Posted September 20, 2012 David Farkas' web site has an excellent hand's on review. I'm guessing eventually, we will see some new glass specifically designed for the M that will allow closer focusing, or even a zoom type, perhaps similar to a Tri-Elmar that would utilze the EVF. As to R glass, I'm curious to see if my different generations design, will 'look' the same, or have the same 'patina' as they do with transparency film. Actually, I'm fairly certian or assuming they won't but as the tests come out in the next couple of months, I'll have a better idea. But either way, there are many possibilities into the future for this camera and glass. Oh, and seeing the inside with the battery out gives an idea of just how much they've changed with this new M - it's not my old horizontal travelling rubberized cloth shuttered M body with a Visoflex II any more. It's like the Ghost of Ernst Leitz has returned to bring a real future back to Leica....and thankfully, we R users. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick_dykstra Posted September 20, 2012 Share #414 Posted September 20, 2012 It's like the Ghost of Ernst Leitz has returned to bring a real future back to Leica....and thankfully, we R users. Jeez us R users are hungry, to be getting excited about all this. It's a bit funny really. Think for a moment how good an R10 or R11 could be. Fantastic optical viewfinder, excellent human-to-machine interface, depth of field preview with flash metering, 24MP sensor with live-view, HD video, focus peaking, ... . And no compromises. If only. This M10 is a clever way to use M and R lenses on the one body, but should R users be feeling thankful? I'm feeling a mix of frustration, anger, disappointment, embarassment and annoyance, all unjustified, because each part of my R system still does exactly what it was designed to do when I bought it. On top of those feelings there is also hope and determination, to get enthusiastic again about how good these R lenses are, that I can soon make images with them that will be worth the effort of putting aside the other feelings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted September 20, 2012 Share #415 Posted September 20, 2012 Including the Olympus 24mm & 35mm, Leica R 28mm & 35mm shift lenses . Hopefully the micro lenses will be able to cope since the camera will work with the WATE. Bob. Bob, according to one of the reviews/impressions already released, the new sensor has no shifting micro lenses (nor anti-aliasing filter) and is meant to work equally well with R and native M lenses. Stefan Daniel has said that the development of the firmware is still on-going,. I don't have R lenses but it certainly will be interesting to see how the M will perform across the whole range of M wides for example. I'm sure I'm not alone in looking forward to what the production cameras can produce when we see them next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter Schaefer Posted September 20, 2012 Share #416 Posted September 20, 2012 Now that the “adequate solution for Leica R photographers” promised years ago is revealed, I can't say I am surprised: EVF and FF were already a given based on what was revealed in interviews. What to me is rather surprising though is how inadequate and inelegant the M solution appears - had I not sold my R lenses a few years back, then the adequate solution would now have a name (two actually): Nikon D800E and leitax (unless you want to use the lenses on R bodies too that is). Costs thousands less (though probably of little concern to Leica die-hards) and has an optical viewfinder and a mirror just like in the good old days; no need for the Olympus-borrowed EVF that looks like it doesn't belong and wants to jump off from that Leica M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 20, 2012 Share #417 Posted September 20, 2012 Bob, according to one of the reviews/impressions already released, the new sensor has no shifting micro lenses... Another one of Erwin's oddities? http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/255598-leica-m-microlenses.html#post2185791 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted September 21, 2012 Share #418 Posted September 21, 2012 It cost a scarcely believeable €1950 in 2008. I paid less than 1/4 of that, less than any of the ones listed on eBay. You didn't find a 28-90 did you? Mark, for some reason the 2x APO Extender ROM lost its value much more rapidly than many other R lenses. Given what is in its construction, the original new price at the end of production was par for the course. In particular, quite apart from the optics, the ROM system was much more complex than on a lens. It involves a small microprocessor to take information from the lens chip, and convert it automatically to appropriately scaled up information for the camera to see.The lenses "just" have a passive chip, albeit one that has been programmed to the aperture dynamic properties of the individual lens sample it's mounted on! (Actually the chip on my zooms also sends the correct focal length information on to the camera, as well as the correct variable aperture.) The earlier non-APO version is very noticeably optically infererior The 28-90 is absolutely superb. The last second-hand one I saw at ffordes went for about £1700 or £1800. I think there might be one or two around on ebay from some of these "buy it now" dealers (no bidding) that charge way over the going rate. Finally, if you've got any spare cash left over, why not get a second-hand R8 or R9 and enjouy the full R experience! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted September 21, 2012 Share #419 Posted September 21, 2012 Leica are highly unlikely to make more R lenses but it's inevitable that they will make longer focal length M lenses. Furthermore, there could now be a market for high quality supplementary close-up lenses ie an 'M' lens compatible set of achromatic Elpro lenses which would offer users an easy means of live view close focusing. The older Leitz R Elpro lenses can still be sourced at bargain prices; these offer superb close-up performance with R prime lenses in the 50mm to 180mm focal length ranges. I have just seen a set of Elpro 1, 2, and 3 lenses (all 55mm thread) for £73 ... absolute bargain. Fill your boots with 'R' Elpros while they are still cheap. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted September 21, 2012 Share #420 Posted September 21, 2012 Garside - It will be several months before the M is available. I suggest you hold-off buying any digital body until we see how that one performs, and while waiting work on your skills with your film Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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