M8 for beginning rangefinder photography?

[Want-a-leica]

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Seeing bits of the camera in the viewfinder comes with the territory with just about any rangefinder camera. If you think it'll drive you mad, stick with a SLR.

 

I hardly ever use a 50mm lens on my M8; it seems too long for a "standard" lens but too short for anything else. But I can imagine it would be good for parkour, giving you dramatic perspectives without having to get suicidally close.

 

For me, the 21mm (28mm FF equivalent) would be too wide to have as my only lens. Which leaves the 28.

 

You need a UV/IR filter for the M8, not an ordinary UV filter.

 

Guess I'll have to get used to the lens being visible then!

 

What you said pretty much echoes my thinking about the 50. I'd love to try shooting parkour with it, but I doubt I have anything like that level of focusing skill... I'll likely leave that to an SLR with something like a 24-105 zoom. That being said, the parkour people are real posers, so I could sure use the M8 for when they're goofing around, and not somersaulting off 15-foot platforms.

 

I can always pick up a 50 later on, anyway.

[giordano]

One advantage the M has for action photography is that (esp. with 50mm or longer lenses) you can see what's happening outside the frame.

 

Another used to be that there was less delay between pressing the button and the exposure starting - but the digital Ms aren't quite as responsive as the film ones while modern DSLRs have less delay than their classic film predecessors. Some people also believe that being able to see the action at the moment of the exposure is another big advantage. IMHO this is either irrelevant (the mirror blackout doesn't happen until after you're pressed the button) or at best kind of like the follow-through in a golf shot.

 

Things were different long when people had to use 5x4 or half-plate SLRs for sports photography: it took hundreds of milliseconds for the mirror to go up and the shutter to start moving, and then ten seconds or more to change the film and cock the mirror and shutter.

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[Neil_SI]

Well, barring my bank being incredibly incompetent (which is well within the range of possibility), I hope to have my M8 delivered within the next week to ten days (in time for a trip to northern Japan, no less).

 

I was at a local camera dealer today and they have a few rather nice looking M lenses at a ten percent discount until January ends....tomorrow, in other words.

 

My master plan is to end up with the M8 (already ordered), a decent lens to start with, and with the remaining money to get a slightly older Canon for stuff the M8 probably won't do so well (sports, super-tele, etc). I do a semi regular shoot with a parkour group, and much as I'd love to try the M8 with that, I don't think it would work:D

 

The lenses in particular I saw were these, and I'd like to get your opinions on them:

 

Elmarit M28 F2.8 (this looks basically brand new, has a hood, and that cool-as-all-get-out finger thing you use to focus). It is also the cheapest of the three, not by a great amount, but it's still the cheapest. And the most beautiful to look at.

 

Summilux M50 F1.4 (this looks considerably older, the glass looks clean though; 1.4 is nice, but I don't know how necessary it will be. I looked them up online and I think it's either from the 1992-2004 selection: the "feet" markings are in yellow)

 

Elmarit M21 F2.8. Looks in pretty good condition, not as brand new as the 28, but pretty decent.

 

The 50 and the 21 are almost the same price.

 

The problem I have is that I can't try them out because my M8 won't be delivered for a few days yet, and the offer ends tomorrow. I've bought from this store before with no problems at all, so I really don't imagine there'll be much wrong with the lenses.

 

My gut reaction is to go for the 28 (which will pan out as more or less a 35 on the M8), but that's basically because it looks so nice. The 50 would be my second choice, but that would end up as a 65, which might be too long. The 28 (apparently) also takes a 39 UV filter, one of which I just happened to see in another local store here. (E39 UV - is that the one I'd use to avoid the magenta shift?) I also read that the 28 won't block the viewfinder on an M8 because of the crop factor, which is good. I imagine a lens that did that would drive me mad and I'm not going to be able to get an external viewfinder in time for the trip.

 

Appreciate any firm suggestions. I'm leaning against the 21 only because it'll need an external finder (AFAIK), and pulling strongly for the 28, unless someone can convince me that the 50 is that much better.

 

Thanks, once again. I haven't even got the camera yet and I've learned a ton from this place:)

 

Awesome, where did you end up buying yours from?

 

I have to say I'm thrilled with mine at the moment and really enjoying the experience. I am surprised in the short time I've spent with it, how it's naturally altered the way that I am thinking about my photography.

 

It's just so fun and refreshing to use and the manual focusing hasn't been an issue for me at all and I've liked it far more than I ever imagined I would, but that's because it's so different and so much better than manually focusing on a DSLR, in my opinion. It's just more precise and intuitive.

 

I like 28mm, 35mm and 50mm on DX and FF, so I will likely get a 35mm and 50mm at some point in the future too and they will be Leica lenses I'm sure, rather than the VC 28mm Ultron 2.0 I opted for to start with.

[Want-a-leica]

I ordered it from Red Dot, in fact. I misread their website; the one I was after was still there so I ordered it.

 

I'm still inclined towards the 28 F2.8, but I was reading up on the Summicron 50 (pre-ASPH) and that looks like a beauty as well. The extra stops are incredibly tempting; the issue is that the pre-ASPH will presumably not be lens coded. How much difference will that make, in your (plural) experience?

[erl]

I ordered it from Red Dot, in fact. I misread their website; the one I was after was still there so I ordered it.

 

I'm still inclined towards the 28 F2.8, but I was reading up on the Summicron 50 (pre-ASPH) and that looks like a beauty as well. The extra stops are incredibly tempting; the issue is that the pre-ASPH will presumably not be lens coded. How much difference will that make, in your (plural) experience?

 

You seem to be oscillating between different focal lengths as well as different max apertures. I would suggest you decide which focal length best suits your work style first of all, then worry about which max aperture you can pay for. Otherwise your decision making will be all over the place like a squashball!

 

As far as lens coding is concerned, it won't really affect the 50mm (or longer lenses) except it will not be automatically inserted in your EXIF data. Anything shorter than 50mm really needs to be coded either manually or automatically to benefit from the firmware that corrects vignetting and cyan corner casts from the IR filters.

[Want-a-leica]

I passed on the lenses today. Ten per cent off is nice, but I'd rather wait until I have the camera and try the lenses out for real. And the Elmarit 28 was not in fact coded, which was odd. It looked all but new.

 

If that's going to affect things, I may go for the Summilux 50 instead.

 

I also forgot that there was another camera specialist where I live, so I looked in there and he had a Cosina / Voigtlander Nokton F1.5 50mm, which has some pretty rave reviews online.

 

Any which way, the plan is to hold off until the camera arrives and see what's available. I know that most people advise to get the best possible lenses you can, and that's good advice in many ways, but I'm going to be new to RF photography, so as long as a lens is good enough for the M8, it'll do me until I get the knack of it.

[Neil_SI]

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Any which way, the plan is to hold off until the camera arrives and see what's available. I know that most people advise to get the best possible lenses you can, and that's good advice in many ways, but I'm going to be new to RF photography, so as long as a lens is good enough for the M8, it'll do me until I get the knack of it.

 

How are you getting on? Have you received your new toy yet?

[Want-a-leica]

How are you getting on? Have you received your new toy yet?

 

Yeah, it came just in time for a trip (which I've just got back from). I'm liking it a lot so far, though I still have a lot to learn about using it. Will post up some pics later.

 

Edit : Is it legit to post a link to Flickr pics? Or do I have to embed the pictures within the post? First time to post pics here, don't want to annoy the board admin :-)

Edited February 15, 2011 by Want-a-leica

[erl]

You can post links, or attach images to your post. You will be directed as to the size limits as you upload.

 

Speaking for myself, I tend to look at attached images but don't always follow links, especially to flickr. Just personal bias on my part.

[Want-a-leica]

Thanks Mr. Mod:)

 

I'm a total dunce when it comes to things like file sizes and resizing, so I'll just link it to Flickr.

 

M8 first steps - a set on Flickr

 

All constructive criticism welcome. I'm almost entirely new to this kind of photography.

[Neil_SI]

Great start and congratulations!

 

What lens did you opt for in the end?

[erl]

Great start and congratulations.

 

A bit of constructive criticism. You pics would gain from an increase in contrast. ie. 'squeeze the black point and white point together a bit. Some of them will benefit greatly from a bit of judicious cropping. This symptomatic of Leicas as their framelines are not accurate. Also, your original framing could be a bit 'tighter' in some pics. All this is opinion, not absolute rules.

 

P.S. Yes, I did go to flickr against my usual inclination.

[Want-a-leica]

Great start and congratulations.

 

A bit of constructive criticism. You pics would gain from an increase in contrast. ie. 'squeeze the black point and white point together a bit. Some of them will benefit greatly from a bit of judicious cropping. This symptomatic of Leicas as their framelines are not accurate. Also, your original framing could be a bit 'tighter' in some pics. All this is opinion, not absolute rules.

 

P.S. Yes, I did go to flickr against my usual inclination.

 

Thanks for that. Contrast is still something I'm working out. I tend to set it to "medium high", but I'll try different settings too. Excuse the dumb question, but when you say "squeeze the black point and white point together a bit", do you mean to compose in such a way that blacks and whites are closer together in the picture, or are you referring to a way of using the camera?

 

Neil : My intention was to get a 50 and a 35 or 28. but in the end I ended up with two 50s:rolleyes: One is a Voigtlander Nokton 1.5 (very reasonably priced) and the other a used Summicron (more expensive, but not remotely bank-breaking). They're both really nice, and I intentionally don't label the lenses on flickr yet because I want to train my eyes to see how different lenses render things. The next lens will be a wider one, but I haven't decided on anything yet.

 

Anyways, appreciate the comments. I'll keep shooting:)

[Neil_SI]

Thanks for that. Contrast is still something I'm working out. I tend to set it to "medium high", but I'll try different settings too. Excuse the dumb question, but when you say "squeeze the black point and white point together a bit", do you mean to compose in such a way that blacks and whites are closer together in the picture, or are you referring to a way of using the camera?

 

Neil : My intention was to get a 50 and a 35 or 28. but in the end I ended up with two 50s:rolleyes: One is a Voigtlander Nokton 1.5 (very reasonably priced) and the other a used Summicron (more expensive, but not remotely bank-breaking). They're both really nice, and I intentionally don't label the lenses on flickr yet because I want to train my eyes to see how different lenses render things. The next lens will be a wider one, but I haven't decided on anything yet.

 

Anyways, appreciate the comments. I'll keep shooting:)

 

I think he means that in some of your shots, there isn't enough black or white. You could probably improve the look and feel a touch by doing that (without needing to go mental on the contrast).

 

And lucky you on the lenses. I look forward to seeing how you get on with them.

[erl]

Thanks for that. Contrast is still something I'm working out. I tend to set it to "medium high", but I'll try different settings too. Excuse the dumb question, but when you say "squeeze the black point and white point together a bit", do you mean to compose in such a way that blacks and whites are closer together in the picture, or are you referring to a way of using the camera?

 

 

I am assuming you are using PS to prepare your images at some point. Alternatively, your RAW processor will have similar controls.

 

Go to the 'levels' histogram in your software and move the LH pointer (Black Point) to the right. This will increase the blacks in your image.

 

Then go to the RH pointer and move it to the left. This will brighten your highlights. These two controls will increase your contrast if manipulated as I said. Additionally, the middle pointer is the 'Mid tones' slider. This will further balance tones in the image. Tweaking these controls, sometimes two or threa times, will improve you image in most cases. Changing one will often affect the others, hence the need to tweak more than once.

 

P.S. This is all done as PP, not in camera. A bit like developing a film, not exposing it.

[Want-a-leica]

I am assuming you are using PS to prepare your images at some point. Alternatively, your RAW processor will have similar controls.

 

Go to the 'levels' histogram in your software and move the LH pointer (Black Point) to the right. This will increase the blacks in your image.

 

Then go to the RH pointer and move it to the left. This will brighten your highlights. These two controls will increase your contrast if manipulated as I said. Additionally, the middle pointer is the 'Mid tones' slider. This will further balance tones in the image. Tweaking these controls, sometimes two or threa times, will improve you image in most cases. Changing one will often affect the others, hence the need to tweak more than once.

 

P.S. This is all done as PP, not in camera. A bit like developing a film, not exposing it.

 

Mmm, that's good stuff. I'm pretty new to PP in general, and Photoshop too. I like what that "levels" setting can do. Thanks a lot!