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The M10 or a new camera line? [Merged]

batmax

By batmax
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luigi bertolotti

luigi bertolotti

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Freewheeling speculations are not too bad, time to time, so I add some about this question of EVIL, which I agree is a concept that Leica maybe is better not to stay away:

 

1) One option could be the often spoken "Digital CL"... maybe not with FF but with the "legacy" M8 format : a bit smaller than a M, with M mount and, of course, a M to R adapter.

2) Or even, for Full Frame, a M-sized EVIL camera (not named "M x", but they could bring back the old "MD" name... :D... a M without RF...)

3) Or... an EVIL accessory to be fitted on the shoe of M 9 - 10... I haven't idea if is possible (I played with the Oly accessory - of course into a CMOS camera is another thing)... it could be not fine to use, nor to manage... but could be the only serious "Visoflex of the digital era"...:o

 

Any of those implementations could be a fine way to revitalize some R glass, axpecially in the Tele area, not to mention the much appreciated Apo Macro Elmarit 100...

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!Nomad64

!Nomad64

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Just add video please! Leica will triple sales if video 1080/24p if implemented, because of videogaphers know the quality of leica glass. Ok, Leica will loose some of the hardcore nuts that hate technological improvements.

 

Dear Eastgreenlander,

 

I respectfully beg to differ.

First, "Leica will triple sales if video were implemented" is an unsubstantiated claim.

Second, I wouldn't call M users "hardcore nuts that hate technological improvements". Many of them are regular owners of digital Ms, have PCs and use dedicated software to process their files. If they were technophobes they simply wouldn't do any of the above and would simply stick to MPs or older film models.

Technological improvements are always welcome provided that they actually improve something.

Evil, live view etc. are to my eyes just the attempt to turn electronic what has been done optically and mechanically since the '30s, only less reliably. I wouldn't call that an improvement. Especially if it tends to take the control off my hands and can't be circumvented.

Furthermore, as far as I can remember, camcorders are differently shaped than photo cameras, one of the reason being that different tasks involve different ergonomics. As pleasant to use to take pictures, an M would be of a quirk shape to take videos. Where would be the advantage of using fine lenses if constrained by bad ergonomics? If I were ever to spend Us$ 7k to buy a camera it's because I want an M, not just another camera that can eventually make videos. There are cheaper alternatives.

My guess is that Leitz is going to implement Evil, liveview, video and other modern fashion stuff into those consumer cameras (that however provide a substantial contribution to make ends meet) they produce in partnership with Panasonic.

When it comes to M it's just another kettle of fish. It's not just for technosaurs and nostalgic. It's a niche product for someone who want to take pictures in a certain way and not another. The brand allure and the legend make the rest. Indeed, M users tend to be quite conservative. Ever wondered why no matter the partnership with Panasonic there's nothing japanese in any M, either digital or film?

 

Peace,

Bruno

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rolu

rolu

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Just add video please!

 

+1 and many, many more, I suppose.

 

As I remember from the interviews as the M9 was released, there were strong hints, that the M10 will have a cmos anyhow.

With the rangefinder AS IT IS and therefore MANUAL focussing and M-glass it will be a wonderful tool for the ambitious photographer, as most M users are. And this will be again an evolution - nothing like an autofocus Canikon.

 

If somebody doesn't like video - JUST DON'T USE IT !

Why not let everybody have his/her way? - I think it's called freedom or tolerance ...

 

Ok, Leica will loose some of the hardcore nuts that hate technological improvements.

 

I don't think so. On the one hand - what other camera - apart from another M9 perhaps - should they buy ? (Leica has no competition in this area.) And on the other hand - after a little time maybe they will accept it or maybe even like it as they do the digital M now, or at least their families like to have some videos.

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!Nomad64

!Nomad64

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OK su tutto, Bruno... giusto alla fine, ci sarebbe da precisare che l'otturatore di M8/9 è in effetti made in Japan... :)

 

Grazie per la puntualizzazione, Luigi. Non si finisce mai di imparare ed ogni occasione per farlo e' sempre benvenuta.

 

Migliori saluti,

Bruno

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farnz

farnz

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... If somebody doesn't like video - JUST DON'T USE IT !

Why not let everybody have his/her way? - I think it's called freedom or tolerance ...

Actually it's called economics.:rolleyes: Why would I want a potentially expensive feature like video that I would never use (I have it on a DLux-4 and a 5D MkII and I never use it there) when it's likely to inflate the purchase price? :confused:

 

To echo Bruno, if I suddenly developed a desire to shoot video then I'd start looking for a video camera that's designed to shoot video.

 

Pete.

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lct

lct

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I'm reading a lot of things about the new Evil cameras and I was thinking if in the future leica can think to build an Evil M 10...

Would not be an M any more for lack of rangefinder but i would not mind to get a clip-on EVF instead of optical external viewfinders.

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bill

bill

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Well, please tolerate, that it is wanted by many.

 

...but not by the majority.

 

Bloatware is unwanted. Most especially bloatware that increases the price. Why should I pay more for a feature I will never use? Have your own EVIL and leave the rest of us to enjoy the simple M10.

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Philippe D.

Philippe D.

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If Leica is going to make an M10 (or a R10), since i use the Pana G1, i am strongly in favour of the EVIL system.

The rangefinder is nowadays outdated with digital cameras (just look what we had to do with our M8) and much too expensive and fragile.

Yes for EVIL, but no to video. I right shoulder video camera can't be replaced by a still picture two hand camera.

That's my 1/2 cent.

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wildlightphoto

wildlightphoto

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You are not really talking about tolerance.

- Again, if you don't like it, don't use it, and if you don't look for it in the menu, you won't be bothered by it.

 

Unused features can be and are occasionally activated by accident and cause wasted time while the user figures out

 

a) what was activated

B) how to turn the blasted thing off

c) how to prevent the feature from being activated again

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Fokus

Fokus

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Unused features can be and are occasionally activated by accident and cause wasted time while the user figures out

 

a) what was activated

B) how to turn the blasted thing off

c) how to prevent the feature from being activated again

 

Hy Doug,

I think you are right. The philosophy of Leica -cameras, as far as I understand it, is placed on two main subjects:

 

1. creating the best picture possible

2. creating a "simple" tool for that picture, in the sense of easy to use in every situation

(if possible: self-explaining)

 

Even the S2 is somehow self-explaining, everybody who had it in his hands can confirm that. Concerning a video-feature in a Leica-camera, this is something that many point-and-shoot cameras have today, even in HD. So most people already have that feature in an other camera. Being taken as a feature in a Leica-camera would make the people expect, that the movie-feature is also "the best video-feature possible". That would lead away from the main point: the best picture. And: it would come on top at the price.

 

So I don´t see that in the near future.

 

Best greetings to the States

Ralf

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jaapv

jaapv

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If Leica is going to make an M10 (or a R10), since i use the Pana G1, i am strongly in favour of the EVIL system.

The rangefinder is nowadays outdated with digital cameras (just look what we had to do with our M8) and much too expensive and fragile.

Yes for EVIL, but no to video. I right shoulder video camera can't be replaced by a still picture two hand camera.

That's my 1/2 cent.

A well set up rangefinder is still the most accurate system up to and including 90 mm (and quite acceptable for 135), Evil or no Evil. Electronics still have quite a lot of catching up to do. I see more advantages in gradually modernizing the mechanical rangefinder. Electronic framelines would not be a heresy - nor some form of focus confirmation for the weak-eyed.
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