Name this car....

[pippy]

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19 hours ago, AZach said:

Not silly - it is correct. Your turn.

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Interesting car.

The door handles date to post-August 1959 and the rear light cluster to pre-June 1961 so - if those are original fixtures - the production date window is around 20 months.

The 5-spoke Empi wheels aside one item which is definitely not original is the rear deck-lid; that comes from a '57-'62 Karmann convertible. Whereas the cooling slots for regular saloons were situated (as seen here) below the rear window the Karmann convertibles had no such possibility becuse, when folded, the hood would have covered any body-mounted slots; hence their place on the engine cover.

Using these hoods - with their extra capacity for cooling - was / is a popular choice for owners who might have slightly 'non-factory-spec' engines...

Nice Car! Thanks for posting.

Just FWIW here is a snap from c. 1988 of the first car I ever owned. A very similar-era 1959 'Sonnendach' Saloon (with a few non-original parts!). I have so many great memories from those days. Bought it as a stripped-out rolling shell (with much missing) when I was just out of Uni and, sadly, never had the finances to return it to concours condition (by about a million miles...😸)  but, my word, I loved that car...

Just about visible on the 'B Pillar' on the body is the near-side Trafficator / Semaphore indicator arm. Might have been fine in the 1950's but, believe me, fellow motorists in the 1990's didn't appreciate them very much!...😸...

Philip.

Edited March 9, 2024 by pippy

[Perkin]

On 3/8/2024 at 8:04 AM, wlaidlaw said:

It is a pity like so many Lancias, that they rusted so badly. 

Wilson

Fiat made Lancias.  The earlier cars used Swiss steel and I have never come across a rusty one.

[Indeepthought]

2 hours ago, Perkin said:

Fiat made Lancias.  The earlier cars used Swiss steel and I have never come across a rusty one.

The AlfaSud disintegrated in hours rather than months.. At one time Fiat apparently bought Russian metal made from tanks that had been retired..🍻

Edited March 9, 2024 by Indeepthought

[Viv]

2 hours ago, Indeepthought said:

The AlfaSud disintegrated in hours rather than months.. At one time Fiat apparently bought Russian metal made from tanks that had been retired..🍻

It is said (perhaps falsely) that AlfaSuds started to rust while they were still on the assembly line.

[250swb]

5 hours ago, Perkin said:

Fiat made Lancias.  The earlier cars used Swiss steel and I have never come across a rusty one.

Fiat also made steel. In the 1980's when I was stripping the shell of a 1956 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Ti I got to the roof and under the paint lightly etched into the steel was the name 'FIAT'. The sill panels were still solid after standing outside for many years and outlived the sills on my Alfa Sud by a long way.

[wlaidlaw]

5 hours ago, Perkin said:

Fiat made Lancias.  The earlier cars used Swiss steel and I have never come across a rusty one.

The 1960's and 70's Lancias rusted so badly that in effect it killed the company (Lancia Beta cars). I had a 1968 Fulvia 1.3HF Coupé, which was a lovely car, especially after I put in a close ratio 5 speed gearbox and the 1.6HF front suspension but I just could not keep up with the bodywork rust and so sold it. Where did you get the Swiss steel story? May have applied back in the days of the Lambda but certainly not in the days of Fiat ownership. One reason Italian steel had such a bad reputation was down to the high percentage of re-cycled steel in the make up and due to high energy costs in Italy, shorter than normal puddling period in the reverberatory furnaces used in the period. This resulted is a higher number than for other country's steels of what are called inclusions. These sub-microscopic inconsistencies act as a focal point in the steel for rust to start. 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2238785418304320 

Wilson

 

[Graham (G4FUJ)]

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2 hours ago, Viv said:

It is said (perhaps falsely) that AlfaSuds started to rust while they were still on the assembly line.

Like BL in many cases, the steel was rusting before it reached the assembly line!

[wlaidlaw]

5 hours ago, Graham (G4FUJ) said:

Like BL in many cases, the steel was rusting before it reached the assembly line!

I bought what I mistakenly thought was a new Fiat X1/9 from a Fiat dealer. Within a few months it had holes rusted all the way through the bodywork below the windscreen and round the rear screen. Even the Fiat dealer was taken aback at the extent of the corrosion. When he put it up on a lift the chassis strengthening longtitudinal rails of the punt type chassis were also badly corroded especially at the welds. The dealer and I started to investigate a bit deeper and found date stamps on electrical component and glass that were over two years older than we expected and dated from well before right hand drive cars were made. Odder and odder. When doing a dealer track back on the VIN number, It turned out it had been built nearly three years before as a left hand drive car and not having sold, was in storage on grass at an old military airfield near Turin for around 2 years. When there was then a very high demand for right hand drive cars after their release with a multi-month waiting list, it got run through the line at the Bertone factory again as a RHD car and repainted from white to metallic blue. Fiat bought it back from me at full price. 

Wilson

[Rona!d]

Am 2.3.2024 um 18:23 schrieb justru49:

It seems that there is "caravan" mirrored on the grip: Opel Olympia Rekord P1 Caravan 🤔

Sorry, forgot I´ve posted a riddle car and was abroad for a couple of days. justru49 nailed it.

Opel P1 Caravan like this one.

[stuny]

On 3/8/2024 at 12:21 AM, Patrick1955 said:

Silly guess I know - but VW Beetle?

 

You got it.  Your turn to post a mystery car.

[stuny]

Since Patrick has not been responding to my PMs about his turn, who would like to step in?

[pippy]

OK; As it happens I was scanning some old negs today and came across a roll which had a car or two on it so here's a bit from the 3/4 rear of a nippy little runabout. Hopefully someone will know this lovely wee thing from the back as I don't think I have a frontal view......and no wisecracks like "Oh, I only ever see those in my rear-view mirrors"......😸......

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Philip.

[wlaidlaw]

Harris-Costin Formula 2 race car? 

Wilson

Edited March 15, 2024 by wlaidlaw

[pippy]

7 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

Harris-Costin Formula 2 race car?...

Ooooh! Interesting choice, Wilson, but no; not a Harris-Costin (Protos?) nor was the car pictured made from plywood! Larger engined and dating to an earlier era.

FWIW when I saw that you had replied I was relieved to see that you didn't post "As it happens I was driving that very car during the 2002 Goodwood Revival Meeting so..."......😸......

Here is a different, slightly wider, crop from the same neg. which shows the rear suspension and part of the driver's compartment;

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Philip.

Edited March 16, 2024 by pippy

[NigelG]

On 3/9/2024 at 4:17 PM, wlaidlaw said:

I bought what I mistakenly thought was a new Fiat X1/9 from a Fiat dealer. Within a few months it had holes rusted all the way through the bodywork below the windscreen and round the rear screen. Even the Fiat dealer was taken aback at the extent of the corrosion. When he put it up on a lift the chassis strengthening longtitudinal rails of the punt type chassis were also badly corroded especially at the welds. The dealer and I started to investigate a bit deeper and found date stamps on electrical component and glass that were over two years older than we expected and dated from well before right hand drive cars were made. Odder and odder. When doing a dealer track back on the VIN number, It turned out it had been built nearly three years before as a left hand drive car and not having sold, was in storage on grass at an old military airfield near Turin for around 2 years. When there was then a very high demand for right hand drive cars after their release with a multi-month waiting list, it got run through the line at the Bertone factory again as a RHD car and repainted from white to metallic blue. Fiat bought it back from me at full price. 

Wilson

Mine rusted badly around the targa roof support and the front suspension points.

It died in an engine fire near Arras when I was haring back as a youthful architect from an early chateaux project in the Tarn to make the last Calais ferry - leaks at the carb are over the exhaust manifold iirc…🙄
 

 

Edited March 16, 2024 by NigelG

[NigelG]

Are we looking at a Vanwall? 

Late 50s - VW9?

Certainly the sort of  “nippy runabout” that Wilson might have driven…

[Ivan Goriup]

That looks much more like a Lancia D50 / Ferrari 801 than anything mentioned so far. Of course it's not the real thing from the '50s, since none of those survived, rather, that'll be the 'toolroom' reproduction built some years ago in England. That project is a fascinating story in itself & more than worth looking up and researching some rainy evening..

For me, the tip off to the car's identity is the fuel line from the side mounted fuel tank, just out of the cropped image, to the engine, visible at the top of the rear tire.

JZG

[Lelmer]

Alfa Romeo?

[pippy]

5 hours ago, Ivan Goriup said:

That looks much more like a Lancia D50 / Ferrari 801 than anything mentioned so far. Of course it's not the real thing from the '50s, since none of those survived...

For me, the tip off to the car's identity is the fuel line from the side mounted fuel tank, just out of the cropped image, to the engine, visible at the top of the rear tire...

To quote from Monsieur Charles Perrault : “Oh Granny, what big eyes you have,” said Little Red Riding Hood...

Wow! Well spotted indeed! It is, as you say, the recreation of the Lancia-Ferrari.

I'm not so sure that none still exist however. According to this article : "Six cars had been created, but when the program was canceled, many of the cars were destroyed. Only two were spared. They currently reside in Italian museums"...

https://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z13757/lancia-d50.aspx

Snapped here in the paddock at the 2002 'Revival'. I believe it's different nowadays but back then it was members-only who had such close-quarters access and only then if they were 'properly dressed' in period-appropriate attire. Acccordingly I had my 1960 M2 c/w 35mm Summaron and had a great time!

A couple of full-image pics;

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Well played and over to you for the next rebus!

Philip.

Edited March 16, 2024 by pippy

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[wlaidlaw]

The first D50 recreation was made by a friend who was a director of Bonhams Switzerland (now retired) and a Lancia enthusiast with a lovely mint green Aurelia B24 America Spider with a Nardi "improved" engine. Although the D50 body was made new, the engine, gearbox and back axle were all rebuilt from discarded damaged original items. Much of the chassis also came from a damaged original. It took I seem to recall, nearly 10 years searching various Italian garage lofts and scrap yards to track down the pieces. That was when FIVA and FIA were far less relaxed about reproduction cars than they are today and demanded that a goodly proportion of the vehicle was original parts. FIA/FIVA have now recognised that many owners are very reluctant to risk multi-millions worth of machinery on the track and that as a result, fewer and fewer of these machines would be seen by the public, unless toolroom replicas were permitted. Picture below of the B24 Spider when he was with us on the 2009 Coupe des Alpes. 

They have I understand however, got rather stricter about massively increased engine sizes than they were in the past. We bought one of two remaining original Aston DBR-2 cars about 14 years ago, which originally had had a Lagonda 5 litre V12 but when that pre-war W.O.Bentley designed engine proved to be terminally unreliable in race trim, was changed in period to a 4 litre Marek straight six. We were testing it at Paul Ricard and were somewhat taken aback to be overtaking a Knobbly Lister Chevrolet down the straight. When we measured the engine size with a laser bore gauge, we found it was 4.7 litres and apparently it had been racing (and winning) like that for some years in the hands of the previous owner. 

Wilson

 

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