Name this car....

[dkCambridgeshire]

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You're up late Hektor.

I'm racking my brain with this car … thinking /considering most of the late 30s to early 50s British largish cars. Dismissed Humber, Daimler, Lanchester, Austin Princess, Jaguar, Triumph … and now thinking might be American e.g. Packard. 

dunk 

[hektor]

Dear Dunk and Wilson, at last I have found a car which has you scratching your heads.  It is not any of the makes listed by Dunk, however it is not American.  I will start giving clues.  It is a Park Ward body.

Edited May 22, 2019 by hektor

[hektor]

There were four made.

[NigelG]

I was thinking American but most of the ones I know of that era seemed to head towards central handled doors ie with only the rear as the “suicide” door. The slightly crude detailing/styling/“look” seemed initially to point away from a top coach builder - is the “military” green a hint?

Edited May 22, 2019 by NigelG

[dkCambridgeshire]

7 minutes ago, NigelG said:

I was thinking American but most of the ones I know of that era seemed to head towards central handled doors ie with only the rear as the “suicide” door. The slightly crude detailing seemed to point away from a top coach builder - is the “military” green a hint?

Park Ward is a 'top' coachbuilder.

dunk 

[NigelG]

I know - it threw me off....it looked more like a serial production US at first glance

 

 

 

[Rona!d]

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I would have guessed it´s a Bentley 3.5 ltr (later 4 1/4 ltr.) Saloon by P. W.

 

p.s. But I have no clue if only 4 were made of those.

[NigelG]

I’m still thinking it’s some sort of staff car etc. or special purpose vehicle.

PW made military vehicles with Daimler I think and to me it has a slightly utilitarian air (top coach builder notwithstanding) in the detailing.

[Rona!d]

Indeed it looks a bit "simple" for PW. Maybe it´s been made for military or gov. leaders but I still think it´s a Bentley.

[dkCambridgeshire]

16 minutes ago, Rona!d said:

Indeed it looks a bit "simple" for PW. Maybe it´s been made for military or gov. leaders but I still think it´s a Bentley.

Park Ward must have built hundreds of Bentley cars with this type of body .. but Hektor states only 4 were made of this particular car.    

dunk 

[Rona!d]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb dkCambridgeshire:

Park Ward must have built hundreds of Bentley cars with this type of body .. but Hektor states only 4 were made of this particular car.    

dunk 

Thus maybe some sort of special series for gov use (prime minister or whatever). Or a special engine?

[Rona!d]

OK, it´s the engine like I guessed. This should be chassis number 3B50, a 1939 4,25 ltr. Experimental Saloon with a B 60 engine (#11). Two other of this also had the B60 engine and one had a B80 installed.

[Rona!d]

Due to cost cutting, RR wanted only three types of engines (B40, B60, B80) so four experimental cars were made based on 4 inch extended wheelbase MkV chassis to fit the technical demands for the engine tests.

[dkCambridgeshire]

Ronald you've tracked it  

dunk

[Rona!d]

And after the engine tests, this chassis number really had a military/gov use. It was lent to the head of Bomber Command Air Vice-Marshall Arthur Harris. Seems to be the only survivor of the four experimental cars.

[wlaidlaw]

Hektor has already said no to the Mk.5 Bentley (my first guess), which would have also covered the 1941 wartime versions. In any case they made 17 of them not 4 according to my Bentley book. There were also a few RR Wraith versions PW bodied (maybe 2 or 3) made for senior management at RR but that guess also got turned down. They were made without ash framing supporting the body, due to the shortage of this wood needed for aircraft use. 

Wilson

[NigelG]

Well - Hector said it wasn’t a Bentley Mk 5.

For other mentioned  marques he said no to all models directly or by implication, but not to it being a Bentley per se, just not a Mk 5........

[wlaidlaw]

1 hour ago, NigelG said:

Well - Hector said it wasn’t a Bentley Mk 5.

For other mentioned  marques he said no to all models directly or by implication, but not to it being a Bentley per se, just not a Mk 5........

My Bentley book lists all the wartime production under Mk.5 in a very brief appendix with next to no detail. It says 17 chassis made in two different wheelbases. Engine was the B1MB 4259cc  4¼L pre-war engine not the RR military spec B60 4256cc engine, as used in the Daimler Ferret scout car. This was not developed until 1943/44 by W Rowbotham's team at Crewe after they had finished development of the tank version of the Merlin (Meteor). Manufacture of the B series engines did not start until 1947. 

Wilson

Edited May 22, 2019 by wlaidlaw

[Rona!d]

Wilson, maybe these were NOT direct pre-serial prototypes of/for the MK V, they just took modified MK V chassis (longer wheelbase) for the mentioned engine testing.

Roll Royce initially planned about 35 experimental MK V but of those 35 cars only 17 were finally made. 10 of them were destroyed during war and 7 genuin MK V remain today, one of them is in the Bentley Motors collection.

I think the 4 engine-test experimental cars were amoung those 17 but could be counted as an own series because of their extended wheelbase. We possibly have 13 chassis with shorter and 4 with longer wheelbase - check the books?

The serial production of the B type engine may have started after war, but there were possibly engine prototypes B40, B60, B80 earlier and used in the Experiemtals.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Rona!d]

You sure now people in the Bentley scene who could explain and know more.

This riddle car belonged to an Ex-Bentley manager after war who knew it from former days at RR/B.. At one point sold for 20$, then darkness until 1976 when it was "found" and restored to wartime condition.

In my archive I found some more (and partly different) numbers, have to translate and will post later.