eritho Posted March 19, 2010 Share #301 Posted March 19, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Chris, Sander, Thanks for your replies. Sarcasm and over the top statements are not necessarily conducive to elevate the level of discourse in this forum. Maybe we can agree on a few things: • The M9 is a wonderful minimalist tool in the right hands. • Some aspects of the M9 are on the cutting or bleeding edge of technology, such as the close proximity of WA lenses to the sensor and apparently associated red edge problems, that could hopefully benefit from further hard work. • Other aspects of the M9 are rather mundane and just require the necessary attention to detail, as should be expected from Leica and their historically excellent reputation. • Approached in an open, frank, and supported way, this forum could be helpful, maybe, to result in an even better Leica M camera and attracting new users with the necessary interest, time, and financial resources. Sincerely, K-H. Hear... Hear!!! Well spoken :D:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 19, 2010 Posted March 19, 2010 Hi eritho, Take a look here M9 FW v1.116 available.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
DerekF Posted March 19, 2010 Share #302 Posted March 19, 2010 .....but what is weird is that some M9's don't do this - mine included. Neither does my M8 (very early one). You would think this would be consistent behaviour. Wilson Yes, and this is why I can't just live with it. My M8 doesn't do this and I'm pretty sure my M9 didn't up until recently (perhaps it's firmware-related, perhaps not, but I only noticed it after the firmware upgrade). Leica USA have still not responded to tell me whether this is standard behaviour or not. FWIW, I got my M9 in late January. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 19, 2010 Share #303 Posted March 19, 2010 Yes, and this is why I can't just live with it. My M8 doesn't do this and I'm pretty sure my M9 didn't up until recently (perhaps it's firmware-related, perhaps not, but I only noticed it after the firmware upgrade). Leica USA have still not responded to tell me whether this is standard behaviour or not. FWIW, I got my M9 in late January. Ooh ooh - perhaps my M9 is a rare one and worth more then ;-}} Well at least ¢1. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted March 19, 2010 Share #304 Posted March 19, 2010 2009-03-16 - Canon released new firmware for 5D II [2.0.3] 2009-03-18 - users found a bug (no sound recorded in custom modes, when sound level was set manually) 2009-03-19 - Canon released new firmware for 5D II [2.0.4] (solved above bug) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted March 19, 2010 Share #305 Posted March 19, 2010 2009-03-16 - Canon released new firmware for 5D II [2.0.3]2009-03-18 - users found a bug (no sound recorded in custom modes, when sound level was set manually) 2009-03-19 - Canon released new firmware for 5D II [2.0.4] (solved above bug) Funny you mention that... In just three days (2009/03/16 - 2009/03/19) Canon had sorted out the problem. It took Leica 6 months to put on line a new firmware which doesn't really correct the red edge problem and brings some new bugs... I would say Canon is much more reactive than Leica Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mby Posted March 19, 2010 Author Share #306 Posted March 19, 2010 Funny you mention that... In just three days (2009/03/16 - 2009/03/19) Canon had sorted out the problem. It took Leica 6 months to put on line a new firmware which doesn't really correct the red edge problem and brings some new bugs... I would say Canon is much more reactive than Leica So why do you stick with Leica? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 19, 2010 Share #307 Posted March 19, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) So why do you stick with Leica? He prefers Leica quality and hope their customer service will improve? Just a guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted March 20, 2010 Share #308 Posted March 20, 2010 So why do you stick with Leica? Why do you ask? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mby Posted March 20, 2010 Author Share #309 Posted March 20, 2010 Why do you ask? If the grass is so much greener over there and this is so relevant to someone, I don't understand the reason why he stays behind with Leica - except overall Leica has the better offering indeed and this is not as relevant in the broader context as positioned here... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted March 20, 2010 Share #310 Posted March 20, 2010 Overall I don't actually think the new Firmware is an improvement on what we had. Its corrected a few known problems (not red edge), but introduced a 'flakey' aspect to the camera, where stupid things are happening that don't make sense, like bogus warnings on the LCD, or baffling auto bracket function glitches, or sequences people have to go through to make a once reliable SD card work again,.... and I'm sure there will be more. The Firmware has only been out a few days and already I sense my once very reliable camera is on the edge of a nervous breakdown. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted March 20, 2010 Share #311 Posted March 20, 2010 Odd - both of mine seem perfectly happy. Seriously Steve - look at the great images on your Flickr, do you think the M9 is going to serve you less well than it did? Both of mine are rock solid (following a week of non-stop work partnered with the 5D2). Format speed improvement is great. My new process for auto review (with shutter release held down) is so convenient. Rapid processing of preview is great when I want it. I agree with others that there's a need to improve red-edge issues on some lenses, but really, I've never felt more at ease with a camera... Really, how many of us spend our time (even two minutes of it) reviewing images and zooming in and out to 100%. I'm happy maximising battery life.. And what are these bogus warnings on the LCD + auto bracketing glitches (when people aren't in A mode and haven't read the manual...)? Maybe it's time to move on from this thread? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted March 20, 2010 Share #312 Posted March 20, 2010 If the grass is so much greener over there and this is so relevant to someone, I don't understand the reason why he stays behind with Leica I see nothing wrong in directing, mobilizing - company called Leica to go in good direction. To evolve. I entered into "M" world as I see lot of benefits against what I used so far. But there are areas, where LEICA is behind competition. No. Even more. Behind MINIMUM requirements. What is important - I am not talking now about NEW areas (LV, EVF). I am talking about BASIC areas, like zooming, cards maintenance, waiting for sharp screen to appear, etc. Why not to talk about? Do you work for Leica? I assume not, but with your statements you do not build good image of it as a company, but opposite. So far, for me newcomer - LEICA shows worse attitude than Korean companies (eg. SAMYANG). New fimware was released after "ages" time in digital world. It didn't improve everything it states to improve, it screw up few other things. OK, I can imagine that. But day passes - and? Why I didnt't hear anyone from PR department saying - guys, we are aware of new bugs, we will corrct them in X days. Come on, it is XXI century. We are not CHILDREN taking offence and selling our M9s. We - as MATURE partners want to co-operate with LEICA. Do you know what happened with Korean company? Samyang announced, then released new lens few months ago. After first test by lenstip dot com - it was clear, that there is a design issue. And desing must be changed. Samyang stopped all production, took it to trash, corrected design and started production again. Everything was delayed. Company informed about all potential customers in advance. Do you realise how much respect they gained? I would be happy to pay 500 EUR more for M9 - if LEICA would pay some fees to Panasonic, and ask them for help with firmware, menus, screens, etc. I would be happy if M9 would be here on the level of cheap LX3 compact camera. I don't even mean ALL screens. Just basic ones which are present in M9! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 20, 2010 Share #313 Posted March 20, 2010 I see you are the first in line for a Samyang camera... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted March 20, 2010 Share #314 Posted March 20, 2010 So why do you stick with Leica? Because it's the ONLY digital rangefinder on the market. It would be healthy for Leica (and for all of us) if they had at least one competitor. Monopole has never been a good thing. Period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted March 20, 2010 Share #315 Posted March 20, 2010 He prefers Leica quality and hope their customer service will improve? Just a guess. Thank you, Maximus. It's true I like Leica and there's nothing wrong in telling them to wake up... especially when Leica consider me as: „Da gibt es zunächst die Sammler, die jedes M-Modell kaufen, das wir auf den Markt bringen. Es gibt technikbegeisterte Kunden, die eine höchstwertige Kamera mit einem digitalen Sensor im Vollformat suchen. Und es gibt die ambitionierten Fotografen, die nicht irgendeine Kamera wollen, sondern eine mit dem roten Leica-Punkt. Die wollen beste Qualität und sie wollen zeigen, dass sie sich das leisten können". („Die Leidensfähigkeit unserer Kunden ist hoch", Rudolf Spiller, Die Welt). It's amazing how people here can critize Canon because there was a bug in their firmware which has been corrected in just three days... I wish Leica could do the same. Of course, everybody can make errors, but the wise attitude is to recognise them and correct them as soon as posible... 6 months it's a bit too much... IMHO Leica is known for the quality of their products. Quality starts when you don't have to work twice to correct issues, bugs, defects... After all problems with the M8 and now with the M9, I can't think of premium quality... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted March 20, 2010 Share #316 Posted March 20, 2010 Overall I don't actually think the new Firmware is an improvement on what we had. Its corrected a few known problems (not red edge), but introduced a 'flakey' aspect to the camera, where stupid things are happening that don't make sense, like bogus warnings on the LCD, or baffling auto bracket function glitches, or sequences people have to go through to make a once reliable SD card work again,.... and I'm sure there will be more. The Firmware has only been out a few days and already I sense my once very reliable camera is on the edge of a nervous breakdown. Steve It's a compromise. I believe some will revert back to 1.002 to avoid the bugs. Others will love the improvements in 1.116. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mby Posted March 20, 2010 Author Share #317 Posted March 20, 2010 I see nothing wrong in directing, mobilizing - company called Leica to go in good direction. To evolve. (...) Dear Jerry, I see our role completely different: most of us are not partners of Leica (even if some feel like either being exactly that (or Leica CEOs-in-residence)), we are customers, where the feedback and influence cycle is rather different. As already expressed by many, Leica is a small company with some excellent strength, whereas some areas are weaker compared to other vendors (as ArtZ pointed out correctly, those do not compete with Leica simply for lack of competing products, so why should Leica change their approach too fast while sales is still great). - To me it is an illusion to hope for any company to become best-in-class for every aspect without overstretching their business capabilities; they will never become a C, N, or Microsoft, let alone an OpenSource effort. I'll continue leverage what great with the M9 and work around the (in my opinion very few) shortcomings; where I do have constructive feedback, I share it with Leica directly. To me there's no urgency in neither a new firmware nor an M10+... Best, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted March 20, 2010 Share #318 Posted March 20, 2010 Thank you, Maximus. It's true I like Leica and there's nothing wrong in telling them to wake up... especially when Leica consider me as: „Da gibt es zunächst die Sammler, die jedes M-Modell kaufen, das wir auf den Markt bringen. Es gibt technikbegeisterte Kunden, die eine höchstwertige Kamera mit einem digitalen Sensor im Vollformat suchen. Und es gibt die ambitionierten Fotografen, die nicht irgendeine Kamera wollen, sondern eine mit dem roten Leica-Punkt. Die wollen beste Qualität und sie wollen zeigen, dass sie sich das leisten können". („Die Leidensfähigkeit unserer Kunden ist hoch", Rudolf Spiller, Die Welt). It's amazing how people here can critize Canon because there was a bug in their firmware which has been corrected in just three days... I wish Leica could do the same. Of course, everybody can make errors, but the wise attitude is to recognise them and correct them as soon as posible... 6 months it's a bit too much... IMHO Leica is known for the quality of their products. Quality starts when you don't have to work twice to correct issues, bugs, defects... After all problems with the M8 and now with the M9, I can't think of premium quality... ArtZ, WOW! I can't believe anybody would release this. What an attitude. It certainly has nothing to do with why I use Leica gear. Thanks for the quotes, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis.e.oreilly@gmail.co Posted March 20, 2010 Share #319 Posted March 20, 2010 Thank you Jeff & UliWe!Yes, coding as [1134] is indeed best option! Best compromise I think! What is interesting: I have finally learned how to correct red corner issue for 15mm in LR (without coding). There is no one fits all preset, but just few. But coding as [1134] gives more warm results, what is nice in most cases for me. I need to compare no coding vs 21mm coding outside and most probably I will stay with that. Or replace 15mm with new 12mm - one day. After all these tests I understand you Jeff ;-) My patience is almost finished.I have enough of white walls, etc. I want to spend time on photographing, not testing ;-) PS: Exactly UliWer, correct exposure is important. Even more, as underexposing increases noise, and overexposing can quickly burn highlights. Need to be careful. Jerry: Can you outline what you did in Lightroom to correct for the red corners with the 15mm Voigtlander lens? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanhulsenbeek Posted March 20, 2010 Share #320 Posted March 20, 2010 Maybe it's time to move on from this thread? Yes, but then: Yet each man kills the thing he loves By each let this be heard, Some do it with a bitter look, Some with a flattering word, The coward does it with a kiss, The brave man with a sword! (Oscar Wilde) [and a few verses on the fun starts:] Some love too little, some too long, Some sell, and others buy; Some do the deed with many tears, And some without a sigh: For each man kills the thing he loves, Yet each man does not die. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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