Is the new M8 firmware just around the corner?

[blimey]

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it's easy now since leicarumors.com posted about the new FW release in early May. And another member posted that he received an email from Leica directly about the new firmware. only time well tell and at this point, chrisM is...

[SiOnara]

Lets hope that add manual lens selection. That would make the M8 complete.

[Guest BigSplash]

I sure hope that Chris M deep throat at Leica is wrong.

I bought my M8 last year and I would like to think that Leica will bring out firmware to fix known issues. If they do not then frankly although I like perfection (when it comes to equipment I own) I have to agree that the M8 actually seems to work just fine and it takes great photos, The shutter issue is something I could live with as I have never seen it myself and if I managed to get the dreaded lock up I would remove the battery and then replace it again which fixes the issue!

 

Frankly I would love Leica to provide the manual lens capability for free, but if they charged me for this (at a reasonable level) I think I would understand.

 

From a business point of view I think Leica need to consider that they are supplying an expensive piece of kit and that people accept this because of the after sales service they expect to receive........surely firmware is a key part of that after sales service. If Leica can generate some extra cash by selling extra features via firmware and effectively updating the camera towards a M9 surely that is a win win for Leica's bottom line and the user.

[jaapv]

There you go again, Frank, reading things that are not there....

its just one man thoughts.

[Guest BigSplash]

There you go again, Frank, reading things that are not there....

 

Jaapv can you explain to me your posting in reply to mine...I simply do not understand what point you are trying to make? Have I misquoted someone? Have I misread something?

 

I say that I hope Leica will bring out M8 firmware and I believe that they will at some point . I also indicate that I hope that they bring out manual lens selection (with or without a fee being paid). I say that my M8 works fine even if they do not fix the known about problems that I can actually live with.

Do you disagree ......? You say "here I go again"....What do you mean by that? ...maybe you should read my posting .

[MikeMyers]

Well, if people at Leica are reading these comments, maybe they'll realize that a substantial number of M8 users would be willing to purchase new firmware, which might cover their costs in developing it. In a way it's too bad that others can't work on firmware improvements - in the world of mobile smart phones (especially Windows), there are quite a few people out there who come up with improvements over the factory supplied firmware.

 

Anyway, one of the weak points of the M8 (as written up in many reviews before I ever bought mine) is that the 'jpg' images are not nearly as good as the 'dng' images. Apparently this is due to the software that creates the jpg images from the data from the sensor. Even though there are lots of reasons why shooting in raw format is better than shooting in jpg format, I'd gladly pay additional dollars for an update that improved the in-camera jpg images. If Leica realized that most M8 users felt that way, they would be justified in putting more effort into upgrades for a camera that's no longer being manufactured.

 

 

(If Leica software developers are like all the other software developers I know, even if the new firmware update is already finished, they would want to spend a LOT of time testing it out thoroughly, to make sure there are no unexpected bugs, before releasing it to the public.)

[Guest BigSplash]

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Well, if people at Leica are reading these comments, maybe they'll realize that a substantial number of M8 users would be willing to purchase new firmware, which might cover their costs in developing it. In a way it's too bad that others can't work on firmware improvements - in the world of mobile smart phones (especially Windows), there are quite a few people out there who come up with improvements over the factory supplied firmware.

 

Anyway, one of the weak points of the M8 (as written up in many reviews before I ever bought mine) is that the 'jpg' images are not nearly as good as the 'dng' images. Apparently this is due to the software that creates the jpg images from the data from the sensor. Even though there are lots of reasons why shooting in raw format is better than shooting in jpg format, I'd gladly pay additional dollars for an update that improved the in-camera jpg images. If Leica realized that most M8 users felt that way, they would be justified in putting more effort into upgrades for a camera that's no longer being manufactured.

 

 

(If Leica software developers are like all the other software developers I know, even if the new firmware update is already finished, they would want to spend a LOT of time testing it out thoroughly, to make sure there are no unexpected bugs, before releasing it to the public.)

 

Mike I actually think that Leica should not play with the software related to JPG conversion as shooting RAW is not really a hindrance (to me at least) and gives as you say other benefits when it comes to post production.

I believe that if they did do such a software upgrade it would be costly and time consuming and would be somewhat dependant on the current digital signal processing chip set, which one might believe will be phased out in future M cameras in favour of the much faster Maestro chip set from Fujitsu (as used in S2).

 

IMHO playing with a M9 (I borrowed) I was amased how slow it is. The M9 also uses the M8 chipset but with a larger buffer memory. I would think that there is a good chance that the M8 would go slower if JPG conversion algorithm was redone and maybe somewhat improved.

I would much prefer to take RAW and use a powerful PC (or MAC) to do the conversion properly and in zero time.

 

Personally I would hope that Leica with its tight financial situation, limited volumes and scarce R&D (including the Jenoptik team that does the firmware) would be better off fixing the few known bugs, maybe giving us the manual lens stuff and then get cracking on the next generation Leica M....hopefully with the Maestro chip set. That is my view

[MikeMyers]

I think that a huge majority of people using this forum would agree with you. Anyone who is going to take the time and effort in using the forum is likely to know a lot more about getting the most out of their M8, and fixing problems in the current firmware should certainly be way up there on the list, along with including as many of the new features that they've used in the M9 as possible.

 

I suspect that many people who buy an M8 simply use 'jpg' for their recording mode, and it wouldn't surprise me if many of them use S(napshot) mode to make things even easier. If I gave an M8 to either of my brothers, neither would know the first thing about 'dng' or 'raw', and they'd expect the Leica to work like their P&S cameras that they're now using. In other words, I think a lot of people are shooting in 'jpg'.

 

From what I've read, and from some tests I made, it seems like shooting in 'jpg' rather than 'dng' is sort of like putting a dirty filter over your lens. A good bit of all that Leica quality vanishes in the jpg in-camera conversion. I don't know if the M9 is any better or not, but from what you wrote, apparently it's a good bit slower (because of a larger file size?).

 

With my Nikons, the image from a jpg file looks just as good as the image from an nef file. Ideally, Leica should match that capability.

 

Bottom line, if Leica has already figured out a better way to write jpg images, and if it would work in the M8, they should make it available to those who do want to shoot jpg (for free, or for a price). On the other hand, if they haven't, then I agree with you - there are other more important things for them to work on.

[jaapv]

The problem with the M8 Jpg is the limited processing power of the camera - Leica certainly knows how to write a jpg - proof is the M9 - nothing wrong there - in fact - for 2500 ISO it is nearly impossible to match the quality of the Jpg by RAW conversion.

[andybarton]

 

I suspect that many people who buy an M8 simply use 'jpg' for their recording mode, and it wouldn't surprise me if many of them use S(napshot) mode to make things even easier. If I gave an M8 to either of my brothers, neither would know the first thing about 'dng' or 'raw', and they'd expect the Leica to work like their P&S cameras that they're now using. In other words, I think a lot of people are shooting in 'jpg'.

 

I think that you underestimate the people who use M8s.

[dcoombs]

The problem with the M8 Jpg is the limited processing power of the camera - Leica certainly knows how to write a jpg - proof is the M9 - nothing wrong there - in fact - for 2500 ISO it is nearly impossible to match the quality of the Jpg by RAW conversion.

 

That's quite an extraordinary statement, Jaap. You mean to say that in the M9 at high ISO there is little improvement in the post processing of a DNG file compared to their JPEG? I don't have the M9, so I can't contradict you, but I find that hard to believe, given the size of the DNG files created.

 

Doug

[Symeon]

I don't think Leica will bother with the M8 any more.. They have their hands full with the M9 at the moment, so forget about it.

 

regards.

[dcoombs]

As far as obsession is concerned of course, there is no real problem if the poster feels so inclined. It is a forum after all and easily ignored (unless you are a mod).

 

The life of a Moderator! You guys deserve combat pay for having to read some of the stuff that goes on. At least we have an ignore list.

 

Doug

[Guest BigSplash]

That's quite an extraordinary statement, Jaap. You mean to say that in the M9 at high ISO there is little improvement in the post processing of a DNG file compared to their JPEG? I don't have the M9, so I can't contradict you, but I find that hard to believe, given the size of the DNG files created.

 

Doug

 

Doug he may be right if he has a really old crap computer with a really old generation of conversion software.

However if he has a high speed CPU, with a nice big Cache and a few Gig of DRAM plus something like Photoshop CS4 I would be amased by Jaapv's claim that an old generation DSP within a camera and the right algorithms can be better than a performant computer.

However he has made claims in the past about semiconductor technology that were simply wrong so maybe this is just another.

 

I do not have a M9 so I too cannot contradict, but I'd be very surprised.

[stunsworth]

I do not have a M9 so I too cannot contradict

 

'nuff said.

[andybarton]

Doug he may be right if he has a really old crap computer with a really old generation of conversion software.

 

That's the most likely answer...

[dcoombs]

Guess we'll have to wait for Jaap to get back on line to answer my original question to him.

 

Doug

[Guest Chris M]

I sure hope that Chris M deep throat at Leica is wrong.

I bought my M8 last year and I would like to think that Leica will bring out firmware to fix known issues. If they do not then frankly although I like perfection (when it comes to equipment I own) I have to agree that the M8 actually seems to work just fine and it takes great photos, The shutter issue is something I could live with as I have never seen it myself and if I managed to get the dreaded lock up I would remove the battery and then replace it again which fixes the issue!

 

Frankly I would love Leica to provide the manual lens capability for free, but if they charged me for this (at a reasonable level) I think I would understand.

 

From a business point of view I think Leica need to consider that they are supplying an expensive piece of kit and that people accept this because of the after sales service they expect to receive........surely firmware is a key part of that after sales service. If Leica can generate some extra cash by selling extra features via firmware and effectively updating the camera towards a M9 surely that is a win win for Leica's bottom line and the user.

WTF is this Frank! who the F @#$ are you too start throwing around insulting innuendoes towards me like this... " I sure hope that Chris M (deep throat at Leica is wrong). ? Ha Frank!!, are you mad at the fact there isn't going to be an update, so you decide to throw mud around here? ha Frank. Listen buddy, you bought your camera a year ago and I'm sure you didn't buy with the assumption that you were (promised) a FW update, If you did? shame on you! However I don't take likely too mud slingers.

For the rest of the forum members here who are unhappy about the info I chose to pass on, I too I'm disappointed in the fact that there is no FW on the way for the M8. I don't really care at this point. As I have already stated, Leica will only be focusing primarily on there (NEW) products recently released ie; M9, S2, X1 and the new lens, (which I think they should) there are issues to be dealt with on these products. Also Photokina is coming up too. Maybe? there might be a treat for us all at that time. But according to my source it is currently off the table at this time.

 

Ps. I have never once initiated a rude name calling session unless I was (rudely) challenged by a member to defend my position, I do apologize to all of the civil forum members if I have been rude in any other ways.

 

Pss. To all who really want a firmware update. why not try writing a formal letter to Leica's CEO and ask him personally (why) and How come there is not a FW update coming in the near future after you have been requesting one now for over a year.

 

chris m.

.

[dcoombs]

Whew, Chris. Before Frank comes back may I just say that I didn't read his comment as being "rude" the way you did. He said he was hoping that the information was wrong, not that you were. I didn't sense any insulting innuendos there. Frank can be wordy, but I've never read in his posts any personal attacks (altho he has received some himself).

 

Regards. Doug

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Hallo,

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[andybarton]

Chris M

 

You have a PM.