NZDavid Posted November 7, 2009 Share #61 Posted November 7, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I really like the design of the X1 but have to agree with those who are less than wowed by these pictures. I guess they are just a random selection. And I think a lot has to do with that dull, flat English light -- though, to be fair, when I visited, I found that soft light was perfect for portraits and gardens. Nicer than train stations, in any case. But I can't see lots of sparkle or a 3D feel to the pictures. Perhaps the "vivid" setting would help. Or just more interesting light. Perhaps that's why Leica chose Cuba for the pics in the X1 brochure. One other factor, which may or may not be significant: The point of focus seems out in a couple of the pics. RF has pinpoint accuracy; AF can be hit and miss. I wonder if selecting spot AF would be more accurate? In any case, I wouldn't base a buying decision on these pics alone, but its definitely useful seeing them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Hi NZDavid, Take a look here LX1 Samples at dpreview.com. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
VincentD Posted November 7, 2009 Share #62 Posted November 7, 2009 Chromatism 1 on Flickr - Photo Sharing! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 7, 2009 Share #63 Posted November 7, 2009 Wonder what comes from ACR here. The raws i've developped with C1 v4 were much better. I can't seem to retrieve them though. Could someone point me to some raw files somewhere? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted November 7, 2009 Share #64 Posted November 7, 2009 I don’t believe that the red "fringing" you see in these pictures is related to lens CA, instead it is an ACR profile issue. All the pictures with this red "fringing" have a very hot red channel. A profile that tames this red will get rid of this "fringing" and also improve the colors quite a bit. If you process these pictures with a more subdued red channel then the results improve dramatically. Dpreview had asked people not to post these pictures so I can not show my results. Those of you who have "Alien Skin Exposure 2" plug-in for Photoshop, just run these pictures through "Fuji Pro 160S" (along with a bit of under exposure) and you will see these "fringes" disappear; also the color is improved a lot. For example, the first picture which suffers from a hot red channel with this filter (and a bit of underexposure) is dramatically improved. A bit of sharpening and tamed red channel and these pictures start looking very good indeed. Take care! Furrukh P.S. The jpegs directly from the camera should not suffer from this profile mismatch. Furrukh, very interesting analysis. I tempered my original comments by acknowledging that the ACR profile was not yet in place. A generic conversion is bound to be deficient in some areas of colour fidelity and optical correction. Let us be patient before rushing to premature conclusions about the X1. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentD Posted November 7, 2009 Share #65 Posted November 7, 2009 Hi everybody I'm new on this forum. I expected the X1 to be my next digital camera, after I just gave my Nikon DSLR to my little brother, since I missed so much the analog commands from my old reflex and I wanted a compact camera I can bring with me everywhere. I was just fed up with going through an unnecessarry number of submenus to find the setting I want. Moreover the 35mm is my usual focal length (80% of the time), so the X1 seemed to be the ideal camera for me. But what a deception when I saw these picture samples from the dpreview site!!! Would you say this is a professional rendering?? Or something you would expect from a 1800€ camera, with a Leica lens? I don't see a picture with a sufficiently crisp level of details nor enough perspective effect to convince me it is finally the camera I was dreaming of. Moreover the colors are terrificly unnatural and there is this PURPLE FRINGING wich definitely prohibits enlargements to be exhibited. I think I will buy an M8 and start building a M system, before I have enough money to spend in the M9 that will accept the lenses. I was hoping Leica would indeed make an affordable serious camera but it seems rather to be a snobish accessory, despite its very clever commands. The key point for me now is : Could you make a photo exhibition (without pretention, I mean in a small gallery in my district) with this camera? And I regret the answer is no... The last chance they have is to develop a raw files postprocessing program sufficiently keen to delete the fringing, but then what about the other issues (the sample portrait images look "mellow")? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted November 7, 2009 Share #66 Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) So you have used the camera Vincent, first hand experience? I don't take too much notice of pre release images if it's crap once the people are buying and using the camera that is another story. The m8 was crap upon release..... still it was a great bnw camera Edited November 7, 2009 by stnami Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentD Posted November 7, 2009 Share #67 Posted November 7, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes I did have it in my hands, in the Salon de la Photo in Paris last month. I was pretty impressed by this camera, very small, VERY LIGHT!! way lighter and a bit smaller than the Olympus EP-1 that I had in hands a few minutes later, and looked suddenly bulky. I also tested the panasonic G1 it was quite ok. But then I missed the analog-like commands of the X1 that makes me dream, I was praying for having something like that on a digital camera for long (the M8 was out of reach for my budget but now the M9 has come so it becomes accessible). Also I wanted the most compact camera with the better IQ. But I wanted to wait for pictures to make up my mind. Today I saw those samples on dpr and I am not satisfied at all. But I recognize that maybe the photographer is not that good (e.g. on the little girl image with the bag, the only thing in focus is her hand!! It could have been in my opinion better focused) -- also it is reasonable to wait for the final version to draw a conclusion on IQ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted November 7, 2009 Share #68 Posted November 7, 2009 But have you haven't taken taken a photo processed it, printed etc....... dpr samples are pretty meaningless most camera results are crap the girl probably not the focus ISO 400, 1/60 sec, F2.8, and ISO 400, 1/50 sec, F2.8 are not a great setting for a moving person Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup de foudre Posted November 7, 2009 Share #69 Posted November 7, 2009 funny, the girl with the bag was the only one i liked... as for the ergonomics of the camera, i too had it in my hands at Salon de la Photo and loved the feel. unfortunately, there's more to a cam than this... and, yes, Imants, i am one of those who would prefer shallower DOF -- i.e., faster lens, better (or at least not ugly) bokeh... for what you get in the X1 at its price point, it's making the GRDIII look all the more appealing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottocrat Posted November 7, 2009 Share #70 Posted November 7, 2009 Wait for the reviews people. Only a couple of days to go. The DPR gallery was obviously designed to show how the camera performed in a series of different but difficult lighting situations, they're not technically marvellous and there are a few issues but the main lesson to be drawn at this stage seems to me to be that the high ISO performance is good and it can cope with a fairly wide dynamic range. These are not a set of images on which to make a final purchasing decision. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted November 7, 2009 Share #71 Posted November 7, 2009 GRDIII small sensor deep DOF........... I am not dead keen on the X1 DOF on what I can see but I shoot f5.6/f8 .........then I shot a few funerals with the Nikon D90 85mm f1.8/f2 the results were great but that was a job Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup de foudre Posted November 7, 2009 Share #72 Posted November 7, 2009 GRDIII small sensor deep DOF........... I am not dead keen on the X1 DOF on what I can see but I shoot f5.6/f8 .........then I shot a few funerals with the Nikon D90 85mm f1.8/f2 the results were great but that was a job that's the thing -- if i''m going to get it anyways, i may as well go all the way, non? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
khanosu Posted November 7, 2009 Share #73 Posted November 7, 2009 But what a deception when I saw these picture samples from the dpreview site!!! QUOTE] First, Dpreview site has specifically asked that these images not be posted on the Internet. It is not right to post them on Flickr. Here is a quote form Dpreview: " Please do not reproduce any of these images on a website or any newsletter / magazine without prior permission (see our copyright page). We make the originals available for private users to download to their own machines for personal examination or printing, we do so in good faith, please don't abuse it." Second, any chromatic effects will be greatly exaggerated by increasing the contrast or using a profile that causes the red channel to clip badly. Every picture (except for one, that has only a minimal amount of aberration) you are showing on your Flickr stream has its red channel badly clipped; the effect has been even more exaggerated on your site by increasing the saturation above what was in the original pictures which has cause the red channel to clip even more .I believe that with a good profile without overly saturated colors the aberration will be greatly decreased or almost eliminated. Furrukh Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
khanosu Posted November 7, 2009 Share #74 Posted November 7, 2009 any chromatic effects will be greatly exaggerated by increasing the contrast or using a profile that causes the red channel to clip badly. Furrukh Sorry guys, I ment saturation not contrast. Take care! Furrukh Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted November 7, 2009 Share #75 Posted November 7, 2009 Hi everybody I'm new on this forum. I expected the X1 to be my next digital camera, ...... But what a deception when I saw these picture samples from the dpreview site!!! Would you say this is a professional rendering?? Or something you would expect from a 1800€ camera, with a Leica lens? I don't see a picture with a sufficiently crisp level of details nor enough perspective effect to convince me it is finally the camera I was dreaming of. Moreover the colors are terrificly unnatural and there is this PURPLE FRINGING wich definitely prohibits enlargements to be exhibited. I think I will buy an M8 and start building a M system, before I have enough money to spend in the M9 that will accept the lenses. Vincent, welcome to the forum. From your comments I suspect you have merely looked at the DP review pictures. found a few comments in this thread which support your first impressions and rushed to a premature conclusion. You seem to have overlooked the important caveats expressed by a few other members. Take note that the processing was probably a generic profile, not the final version fine tuned for the X1. May I suggest that you suppress your angst until you have examined more authoritative evidence on which to reach your final conclusion. You may be pleasantly surprised. I hope so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 7, 2009 Share #76 Posted November 7, 2009 And I think a lot has to do with that dull, flat English light - What dull flat light? Most of the outdoor images (including the railway station shots) appear to be taken in bright Autumn sunshine. Look at the shadows - there's nothing flat about the lighting conditions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveleo Posted November 7, 2009 Share #77 Posted November 7, 2009 this is a horrid set of images taken under a horrid variety of light conditions and taken as quick snapshots .... if you handed me the finest lens / camera setup ever made i could easily take awful snapshots with it, and i think that is what happened here. i promised myself to calm down and wait for the more serious trials and evaluations, yet to come. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted November 8, 2009 Share #78 Posted November 8, 2009 What dull flat light? Most of the outdoor images (including the railway station shots) appear to be taken in bright Autumn sunshine. Look at the shadows - there's nothing flat about the lighting conditions. Hmm, you're right, but the light still looks very soft. I'd expect the images to have more zing and kapow. I'll look forward to seeing some more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackTheRipper Posted November 8, 2009 Share #79 Posted November 8, 2009 I think it would be hilarious if all those pictures were really taken with the new M9... I'd love to watch the X1 haters back peddle... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentD Posted November 8, 2009 Share #80 Posted November 8, 2009 First, Dpreview site has specifically asked that these images not be posted on the Internet. It is not right to post them on Flickr. Here is a quote form Dpreview: " Please do not reproduce any of these images on a website or any newsletter / magazine without prior permission (see our copyright page). We make the originals available for private users to download to their own machines for personal examination or printing, we do so in good faith, please don't abuse it." The details images have been deleted from the flickr album. Thank you for the warning. Second, any chromatic effects will be greatly exaggerated by increasing the contrast or using a profile that causes the red channel to clip badly. Every picture (except for one, that has only a minimal amount of aberration) you are showing on your Flickr stream has its red channel badly clipped; the effect has been even more exaggerated on your site by increasing the saturation above what was in the original pictures which has cause the red channel to clip even more. I just took the original full resolution pictures and made a snapshot on the problematic points, then posted them on flickr. I didn't make any processing on the sample pictures, just a crop. I believe that with a good profile without overly saturated colors the aberration will be greatly decreased or almost eliminated. Furrukh And if it were a film compact camera, where these artifacts couldn't be withdrawn, what would you think of the X1? I think it is really a shame that such a renowned lens company didn't manage to produce a lens that avoid intrinsically such problems. They have the knowledge to do it right? (multi coating, apodization...) For such a price the lense should astounding. It is not the first impression I had. Though, I will wait for the final product to judge, but I already start thinking of an M8 or a GF1 and a few Voigländer glasses... (Leica ones are really out of my budget) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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