zlatkob Posted February 19, 2011 Share #321 Posted February 19, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Your photo, BTW, says nothing about shutter lag. I agree. Any shutter lag becomes more apparent when you try to capture the exact moment when the bat hits the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 Hi zlatkob, Take a look here M9 shutter lag?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest nafpie Posted February 19, 2011 Share #322 Posted February 19, 2011 ... not at some other random time. Shutter lag is never random. If it is random, the camera is broken (except image buffer issues). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 19, 2011 Share #323 Posted February 19, 2011 I know - it was a figure of speech - but if you have a long lag (like the X1 for example), you can never truly tell when the shutter is going to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 19, 2011 Share #324 Posted February 19, 2011 I agree. Any shutter lag becomes more apparent when you try to capture the exact moment when the bat hits the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindolfi Posted February 19, 2011 Share #325 Posted February 19, 2011 Are you trying to say that the M9 has so bad shutter lag that, in effect, this is the result - the woman would have walked roughly this far, between pushing the shutter and the image being recorded? I find this very hard to believe. Yes that is what I am saying. I do not ask you to believe it, I'm asking you to think with me, given the data. The lady has a head with a depth of about 0.2 meter. At walking speed she moves 0.12 meter in 0.09 seconds. The shift you show in my picture is about half the depth of her head, which is in agreement with the data. On top of that: If you know that the exposure time is 1/30 sec. and you know that the shutter lag is 0.09 second, this must be correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nafpie Posted February 19, 2011 Share #326 Posted February 19, 2011 I know - it was a figure of speech - but if you have a long lag (like the X1 for example), you can never truly tell when the shutter is going to go. Oh yes, thats awful. Can you improve the lag by turning off the AF? With my compact, that works. I know, its OT, but I am curious. Stefan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted February 19, 2011 Share #327 Posted February 19, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm not sure why you're using the rolling eyes. Missing the ball is easy to capture with any camera. The exact moment of hitting the ball can be much harder to capture, depending on the shutter lag. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted February 19, 2011 Share #328 Posted February 19, 2011 From DPReview.com, Shutter Response (Lag time): Nikon D3s (Allmost the same for D700, but no 51-point) In Full Autofocus single mode, center : 0,197 sec. (0,279 for a Nikon D3100) In Full Autofocus single mode, center, with Realese Priority : 0,043 sec. (shooting regardles of target is in focus or not) In Full Autofocus 51-point Auto Area mode : 0,361 sec. From prefocus state: 0,043 sec. No review of a Leica unfortunatly. Best Thorkil PS: Panasonic LX-3 Full Autofus 0,77 sec. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 19, 2011 Share #329 Posted February 19, 2011 What about a D700 with a dumb, manual focus lens? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nafpie Posted February 19, 2011 Share #330 Posted February 19, 2011 What about a D700 with a dumb, manual focus lens? From prefocus state: 0,043 sec. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted February 19, 2011 Share #331 Posted February 19, 2011 ... the D700 takes a shot when you want it to. Did you actually shoot with the intent that the ball should be shown at the very spot where we now see it, and what tolerance were you willing to accept? (Even if it was a lucky shot, it's well worth looking at) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 19, 2011 Share #332 Posted February 19, 2011 Of course. I knew he'd be out that ball, so recorded it for posterity There may have been a little serendipity helping me along... The point is that there really is no lag worth speaking of on a D700 with a Leica lens. Given that the shutter is probably the same one as on an M9, there should be no reason why the M9 shouldn't have a very similar shutter lag. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted February 19, 2011 Share #333 Posted February 19, 2011 What about a D700 with a dumb, manual focus lens? First: SORRY, sorry, wrong adress, not at dpreview, but at Nikon D700 Digital Camera Performance - Review - The Imaging Resource! which manually focussed will fire at 0,045 sec., which apparently is twice as quick as the M9 it seems . Best Thorkil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 19, 2011 Share #334 Posted February 19, 2011 Yes good address. Says 0.078 for my 5D1 vs 0.09 when i measured it. I guess mine is close to the M9 re: shutter lag but i'm used to it and it's not a real problem in day to day use. I don't shoot sports and i didn't pay $7K though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted February 19, 2011 Share #335 Posted February 19, 2011 Lindolfi, I'm not sure that I agree with all of this. But judging from the background of the example picture, I'd say that it must be something in your DNA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
euston Posted February 19, 2011 Share #336 Posted February 19, 2011 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Andy’s picture shows the very moment the bails flew off, mine a few moments later. Does my photo prove that the shutter lag of the V-Lux 1 is greater than that of Andy’s D700. I don’t think so. It almost certainly is but this picture doesn’t demonstrate it. Whatever camera you’re using, to get shots like this reliably you need a tail-ender with poor batting skills, a good bowler, reasonable reflexes and some expertise in judging the camera’s shutter lag. It doesn’t matter what it is in numerical terms as long as you know how to allow for it to get the picture you want. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Andy’s picture shows the very moment the bails flew off, mine a few moments later. Does my photo prove that the shutter lag of the V-Lux 1 is greater than that of Andy’s D700. I don’t think so. It almost certainly is but this picture doesn’t demonstrate it. Whatever camera you’re using, to get shots like this reliably you need a tail-ender with poor batting skills, a good bowler, reasonable reflexes and some expertise in judging the camera’s shutter lag. It doesn’t matter what it is in numerical terms as long as you know how to allow for it to get the picture you want. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/96390-m9-shutter-lag/?do=findComment&comment=1593241'>More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted February 19, 2011 Share #337 Posted February 19, 2011 Allow me to give a short and boring review of my own cameras, concerning shutter-lag, and all of what this will include: M6: this is wonderful and you don’t feel any shutter lag at all, therefore you feel almost totally connected with it, especially when shooting while you are moving or the target is moving, but, but its film…. Hassy SWC, THAT’S a wonderful and primitive camera (!), and you feel totally connected, but, but, but, you have to measure light with a M6 or Nikon at first, and its film (but this camera could even more than the M6 be THE camera that could get me back to film (sorry Leica)) D3…..well, well, well, after doing a sort of street-shooting “assignment”, I suddenly almost felt for this “little” Nikon, and almost felt a sort of connection, it did what I wanted it to do, hip-shot, belly-shots and that nice 14-24 lens, and almost no shutter-lag, and this solid feeling when the picture was taken, and a nice feeling setting everything manually….but the bulk…(!!!!!!) Hassy 201F what a camera….what a bulk.., but that lens 50mm/2.8, wow, sharpness..(!) and a strange feeling of beeing present in the picture, but bulk AND film…(and shutterlag is no issue at all, while everything else matter and the noise will turn heads half a mile away, anyway...) Panasonic LX-3, I hate it, but I use it, most at work (architect) for snapshots, but shutter lag makes me feel totally unconnected, and even it takes relatively god(I must realise) pictures, I don’t care, I don’t want to use them, the feeling and atmosphere leaves me cold an uninterested..and you have to turn on the electronically shutter-noise just to be reassured that you have been taking something at all…. But shutterlag do matter…it’s a huge issue for feeling connected, and feel the camera is an extension of your mind, at least while moving… thorkil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindolfi Posted February 19, 2011 Share #338 Posted February 19, 2011 To show that you can compensate for shutter lag and to show how accurate you can time an exposure here the result from a simple experiment with a turntable for records. (Remember those large black discs with grooves that had music on them encoded in mechanical vibrations ). Those turntables have very accurate rpm, which I set at 45 rpm. I tried to make exposures with the M9 when the arrow on the rotating disc would be at the middle of the group of three arrows at the 6 o'clock position. The neighboring arrows are located at plus and minus 25 msec (0.025 sec). As you can see the timing is on average pretty good with an error of plus or minus 25 msec. as maximum. So I do compensate for the shutter lag of 0.09 sec, because I can see the point coming when the arrow on the disk is in the six o'clock position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted February 19, 2011 Share #339 Posted February 19, 2011 My findings; Some cameras I will refuse to use simply due to shutter lag. The Nikon DSLR's have been nice, have had D1, D1Xs, D2Xs and D3 I like the short SL of the D's super fast especially with the fast of the AFS lenses or a prefocused MF lens, BTW the new AFS 24, 35, 50 and 85 1.4 are all rather slow focusing, but I have given in for the 24mm 1.4 for the shear quality of it, I'll have a go with it on the M8 Yes the 14-24 is a wonderful tool indeed! but again, there are so many lenses for the Nikon F-mount Well the M8u is sort of OK in SL, I don't do action shooting with it much so not a big deal, however I love the feel of the shutter button and the overall functionality of the M8u. After I lubed the shutter button the feel is just perfect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aesop Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share #340 Posted February 19, 2011 [ATTACH]244497[/ATTACH] Andy’s picture shows the very moment the bails flew off, mine a few moments later. Does my photo prove that the shutter lag of the V-Lux 1 is greater than that of Andy’s D700. I don’t think so. It almost certainly is but this picture doesn’t demonstrate it. Whatever camera you’re using, to get shots like this reliably you need a tail-ender with poor batting skills, a good bowler, reasonable reflexes and some expertise in judging the camera’s shutter lag. It doesn’t matter what it is in numerical terms as long as you know how to allow for it to get the picture you want. ...that's a whole bag of pesky variables (both known and unknown), euston. And it does matter what the shutter lag is in numerical terms. This is because beyond a certain "shutter lag" threshold, catching the decisive moment becomes impossible with camera X, unless the moment is expected and can be repeatedly successfully predicted. And if it can be repeatedly successfully predicted and caught, it really does belong to the realm of scientific laboratories. Etc., etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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