spersky Posted November 7, 2009 Share #241 Posted November 7, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) With each passing day, the M9 becomes even less and less appealing to me. I still prefer the IQ of the M8, overall. Let's see what the M10 looks like, but at $9000.00, I doubt I will be interested in that either. Now that is a funny quote. I would likely tell myself that too if I had an M8 and I was not getting an M9. It would at least help me feel better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Hi spersky, Take a look here Who hasn't bought an M9 and why?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
blatent liar Posted November 7, 2009 Share #242 Posted November 7, 2009 Wholly-Crap Alice... Pardon the segue, but you actually are Hello Kitty in an Analogue Leica- Curmudgeon Forum. What light you bring, Splendid ray of Pink Sunshine in something as simple as an Avatar... and Fotografz... Enchanting.... Thanks for tilting the scales toward the sane side. This Full Frame beauty better be the one. Like other Leica Progeny, I placed an order for my M9 months back, to replace my m8.2, which I've sold in disgust at a loss when the thing would not resist my opening the bottom plate every single solitary cold day for a manual Re-boot. Fool me thrice, Prior Conviction... I had the M8, and used the forum as a support group for two years like an Owner of an MG TD, who needed others to tell him that the pain would end with the purchase of a second car, if only to harvest parts from, and keep the first one running. Living through Leica's Learning curve was like wiping your lens clean with a Brillo. Each swipe took the grime away, and softened the focus. Over the M9 waiting-List period I struggled with the affect of owning up to my deposit, and the possibility that I may receive a UPS Tracking number any day now, for a camera which may disappoint; But, before I could have the good sense to stop the bleeding, cancel my order, and sadly after buying into Japonisma and a GF1, and then an adapter to cut my M-Glass in half, (literally! Again I digress with the reduced focal length...). Stalwart, I got that Shutterless Plastic camera, and rode the fear out with a surrogate cam all summer until this-afternoon, when lo!... I received in my email box, that feared tracking Number; On the eve of my urge to give mine good M9 up to someone more worthy, like Wilfredo por ejemplo. Mid-Monday, i will get this new FF body, from the man in Brown, if only to realize what I have wasted 15k on in the interim, and that is to use my wides as they were built to portray. On that Day I hope/ Nay Trust I will have something smarmy to say like; Ahhh yes! (with emphasis), as I enjoy the freedom of a true Leica M Digital. Quiet and luxurious, without the clutter of buttons, and rubber. I will of course, take some Magenta Pics for sure, and If the damn thing chokes on the chill of a November morning, I will drop it in the box like a crooked Bingo Caller, and roll it back in the kiddy as for another sap to prostrate to. I agree with the wise women before me, who stated that life is short, and like Thorsten from 'Bang-and-Olufsen-Land' says, "damn these sexy stereos are expensive, but it beats making the same music from a shapeless plastic box. I'll Welcome a new Leica M9 like a trucker to a diner, as this is all I know, and excuse the redundancy, but there is really no Nikanon, which can placate my desire to push that chrome button the way Leica has schooled me to do. Let's hope the damn thing don't lock-up. (Moral: Why put off 'til tomorrow what you can Summilux today) Full Frame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted November 7, 2009 Share #243 Posted November 7, 2009 I absolutely cannot understand that! I love my M8's but the M9 is full-frame and 18MP. What's not to like? This is the digital camera that I have been waiting for since I switched from film Leica M's to digital Canons (only because there was no digital Leica M!!) They said it couldn't be done, but they did it. Why would you prefer the IQ of the M8? I have both and, for anything important, I'll use the M9. My M8s will hold other lenses until I can afford two more M9's!! Tina Tina Manley Tina, I understand your point. I satisfied that need by purchasing a 21 MP Canon 5D II. Now I have the best of both worlds at a considerable savings. I'm adding R lenses to the gear and couldn't be happier with the results. The image quality of the M9 is fine, but I find that the B&W images of the M8 remain a notch superior. A lot of the M9 B&W photo's I've seen look a bit flat, they just don't seem to carry the same punch although I have seen a few very good ones. I know this will anger some people but I'm only being truthful with what I've seen. Most of what gets posted on the M9 forum would go no where on the Fred Miranda Forum. That aside, raising the price of the M9 so high while taking away a feature such as the SAPHIRE LCD already introduced with the M8.2 borders on the unethical for me. It's only a matter of time when this will be offered as an upgrade. These Leica practices are a total turn-off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted November 7, 2009 Share #244 Posted November 7, 2009 Blatent Liar, Don't forget to post some pictures taken while you're still in a state of hungry ecstasy (LOL). I really enjoyed your post. I wish you the best. No turning back now :-). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted November 7, 2009 Share #245 Posted November 7, 2009 Now that is a funny quote. I would likely tell myself that too if I had an M8 and I was not getting an M9. It would at least help me feel better. The only thing I need to feel better is my photography, sometimes done with equipment valued at less then $100.00. I think it's time for me to exit the M9 forum. I've made my opinions known, and getting some of you folks ticked off isn't really serving any purpose. Photography is a gift, these discussions take away from that. Ciao Amigos... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted November 7, 2009 Share #246 Posted November 7, 2009 Wilfredo, I worry about you, or rather your rationale. You seem to be constantly driven by (not in any order) cost of the M9, and the B&W ability, and maybe other factors I have failed to mention. First, the cost is the cost. Simply a marrket decision by Leica. Agree or disagree, it is what it is. We all assess that against our budget and should then shut up, at least in polite society. Still trying to to educate my family about that one. Second, the B&W quality you have seen. I am assuming you are referring to what you have seen on the internet. If correct, IMHO, that is a big mistake. I would be very surprised if you would not be very happy with the M9's B&W ability. You must exclude the ability, or otherwise, of posters to perform this conversion as that is a very critical factor in the result, and you cannot attribute that to the M9. So anything you see posted on the net cannot be a fair assessment of any gear IMO. If the real reason you don't want an M9 is the price, fine. That's your unquestionable choice. If it a question of quality, I suggest you need to also sell your M8 because that is a step or two lower. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samir Jahjah Posted November 7, 2009 Share #247 Posted November 7, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Impossible to do on any digital camera. Or don't you get that you need some type of screen to set, change and check certain functions on the camera.At least for most users to actually buy and use the camera. What may good for you will not be good for others and the company making the product. This has got to be the most short sighted remark ever posted on this or other forums. I do believe a digital M with no LCD screen would be a very nice thing. It would only shoot RAW, have easy dials for ISO, and lens selection...and maybe a LED indicator for blown highlights! For SD card formatting, just a three-button sequence to avoid accidental formatting. This solution would simplify the electronics (which itself is generating noise) and increase battery life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 7, 2009 Share #248 Posted November 7, 2009 On can switch the screen off, you know Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted November 7, 2009 Share #249 Posted November 7, 2009 Anch'io! Ciao, Luigi e Enrico Ciao Artz, j'ai justement parlé aujourd'hui avec Henry. Je serai à Paris le 5 decembre jusqu'au 9. Nous devons nous rencontrer pour un verre, un déjeuner et quelques photos. À bientôt mon ami. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted November 9, 2009 Share #250 Posted November 9, 2009 Ciao Artz, j'ai justement parlé aujourd'hui avec Henry. Je serai à Paris le 5 decembre jusqu'au 9.Nous devons nous rencontrer pour un verre, un déjeuner et quelques photos. À bientôt mon ami. With great pleasure! I'll send you an email to arrage that. Maurizio will come this time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 9, 2009 Share #251 Posted November 9, 2009 On can switch the screen off, you know Yes, but the point about losing the rear LCD (at least for me) is to get rid of all the gubbins on the back (which I find distracting in a tactile sense) and possibly reduce the thickness of the camera. I'd prefer the camera that way because the improved handling (for me) would outweigh the loss of utility associated with the preview LCD screen. Being able to turn the screen off doesn't help in this regard. I accept that few share my view and such a camera ain't going to happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted November 9, 2009 Share #252 Posted November 9, 2009 Tina, I understand your point. I satisfied that need by purchasing a 21 MP Canon 5D II. Now I have the best of both worlds at a considerable savings. I'm adding R lenses to the gear and couldn't be happier with the results. The image quality of the M9 is fine, but I find that the B&W images of the M8 remain a notch superior. A lot of the M9 B&W photo's I've seen look a bit flat, they just don't seem to carry the same punch although I have seen a few very good ones. I know this will anger some people but I'm only being truthful with what I've seen. Most of what gets posted on the M9 forum would go no where on the Fred Miranda Forum. That aside, raising the price of the M9 so high while taking away a feature such as the SAPHIRE LCD already introduced with the M8.2 borders on the unethical for me. It's only a matter of time when this will be offered as an upgrade. These Leica practices are a total turn-off. Wilfredo, Don't exit the M9 forum please. If nothing gets challenged, then nothing gets done. Aside from all the subjective hardware talk which is neither here nor there for me ... what's important is any discussion about the image qualities produced in the end. I have to agree with you about the B&W images produced by the M9 ... in general ... not totally ... they need help. However, consider this ... We sure the heck weren't producing the best from the M8 right from the get go. We tend to forget all the tearing of hair and gnashing of teeth as we muddled our way through all the issues and post processing of the M8 files. People wrote their own processing profiles and shared them with other M8 owners. Heck, my first M8 B&Ws weren't all that stellar. Then Lightroom Presets started showing up for the M8, and C1 provided better profiles etc. etc. etc. The M9 initial shipments to the US were 20 cameras. 20! How many more have made it here? How many total world wide? I think as the camera gets into more and more hands, and more and more people start working with it, and better profiles come on line, it'll get there ... but in FF format and 18 meg. B&W is really important to my work. Right now it's a bit hit and miss with the M9. I just don't have the recipe down pat yet. I'm using old B&W conversion LR presets and PS actions written for the M8 and they work ... sometimes. Sometimes not. I think it has to do with the midtone response of the M9. I have the exact same issue with the Sony A900 B&W conversions compared to the Nikon D3X B&Ws. Supposedly the same sensor, but the Sony B&Ws are flatter where the D3X conversions are like B&Ws from the M8, only higher meg. than the M8. I'm almost there with the B&W recipe for the A900, but have hardly started baking up ideas for the M9 B&Ws. What is interesting is that this midtone response actually makes for better color images straight out of the camera. The Sony A900 is the same way ... better color out of the camera than the D3X. BTW, there are those that nailed B&W with the M9 already, and they helped some of us improve. Look at the "Fun with M9" image thread on the Get DPI forum. The very first post has excellent B&Ws from the M9. Finally, I disagree with the notion that a Canon 5D-MKII is a substitute for a M9 ... the same way I'd disagree that a M9 could displace the Canon ... or any DSLR you chose. My disagreement isn't based on technical aspects at all. It's based on the form ... the rangefinder's forced insistence on what you are shooting, rather than how you are shooting it. IMO, it's that fundamental difference, not complex technology that is the reason for rangefinder work in the first place ... at least for me it is, and there is no substitute. -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 9, 2009 Share #253 Posted November 9, 2009 Yes, but the point about losing the rear LCD (at least for me) is to get rid of all the gubbins on the back (which I find distracting in a tactile sense) and possibly reduce the thickness of the camera. I'd prefer the camera that way because the improved handling (for me) would outweigh the loss of utility associated with the preview LCD screen. Being able to turn the screen off doesn't help in this regard. I accept that few share my view and such a camera ain't going to happen. A reversible screen would be nice, I suppose, but it would add to the thickness of the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Morley Posted November 9, 2009 Share #254 Posted November 9, 2009 Am very happy with my M8 and M8.2 but did intend to order a M9 prior to realising Leica were only offering painted versions instead of chrome. This dissapointed me greatly, and also decided me to carry on with my two existing Leica's. However having saved a great deal of money via this decision I then went out and spent much of the cash difference via buying a full frame Canon 5D, and you know what I absoluteley love it. So goodbye M9! Don. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted November 9, 2009 Share #255 Posted November 9, 2009 Am very happy with my M8 and M8.2 but did intend to order a M9 prior to realising Leica were only offering painted versions instead of chrome. This dissapointed me greatly, and also decided me to carry on with my two existing Leica's. However having saved a great deal of money via this decision I then went out and spent much of the cash difference via buying a full frame Canon 5D, and you know what I absoluteley love it. So goodbye M9! Don. Glad you are very happy with your 5D. That is the most important part. Curious to know if you have also changed your shooting 'target', as the 5D and the M9 are really 'targeted' at differing styles so are not perceived as really interchangeable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indecisive Posted November 9, 2009 Share #256 Posted November 9, 2009 I haven't bought a M9 because I can't afford one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LotharZhou Posted November 9, 2009 Share #257 Posted November 9, 2009 simply enjoy my M8 at the moment and doesn't make sense for me to upgrade with barely 10 months. after a few years maybe... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted November 9, 2009 Share #258 Posted November 9, 2009 Wilfredo, Don't exit the M9 forum please. If nothing gets challenged, then nothing gets done. Aside from all the subjective hardware talk which is neither here nor there for me ... what's important is any discussion about the image qualities produced in the end. I have to agree with you about the B&W images produced by the M9 ... in general ... not totally ... they need help. However, consider this ... We sure the heck weren't producing the best from the M8 right from the get go. We tend to forget all the tearing of hair and gnashing of teeth as we muddled our way through all the issues and post processing of the M8 files. People wrote their own processing profiles and shared them with other M8 owners. Heck, my first M8 B&Ws weren't all that stellar. Then Lightroom Presets started showing up for the M8, and C1 provided better profiles etc. etc. etc. The M9 initial shipments to the US were 20 cameras. 20! How many more have made it here? How many total world wide? I think as the camera gets into more and more hands, and more and more people start working with it, and better profiles come on line, it'll get there ... but in FF format and 18 meg. B&W is really important to my work. Right now it's a bit hit and miss with the M9. I just don't have the recipe down pat yet. I'm using old B&W conversion LR presets and PS actions written for the M8 and they work ... sometimes. Sometimes not. I think it has to do with the midtone response of the M9. I have the exact same issue with the Sony A900 B&W conversions compared to the Nikon D3X B&Ws. Supposedly the same sensor, but the Sony B&Ws are flatter where the D3X conversions are like B&Ws from the M8, only higher meg. than the M8. I'm almost there with the B&W recipe for the A900, but have hardly started baking up ideas for the M9 B&Ws. What is interesting is that this midtone response actually makes for better color images straight out of the camera. The Sony A900 is the same way ... better color out of the camera than the D3X. BTW, there are those that nailed B&W with the M9 already, and they helped some of us improve. Look at the "Fun with M9" image thread on the Get DPI forum. The very first post has excellent B&Ws from the M9. Finally, I disagree with the notion that a Canon 5D-MKII is a substitute for a M9 ... the same way I'd disagree that a M9 could displace the Canon ... or any DSLR you chose. My disagreement isn't based on technical aspects at all. It's based on the form ... the rangefinder's forced insistence on what you are shooting, rather than how you are shooting it. IMO, it's that fundamental difference, not complex technology that is the reason for rangefinder work in the first place ... at least for me it is, and there is no substitute. -Marc Marc, I appreciate your comments and your ability to get your point across without being condescending. Too often comments get twisted here. My claim about B&W IQ from the M8 is that it is simply a notch above the M9 in my estimation - just a notch - but some like Erl have misunderstood this and insist on giving me an education on photography. You may have identified what the issue is pertaining to this difference in B&W IQ and I have certainly seen some excellent B&W images in the photo section of this forum produced by the M9, and I have applauded the photographer whenever this has happened. I'm not tech sabby, I know just enough about photography to be dangerous and to produce the images that stir my soul. My eye is not the best photographic eye but I can generally tell a good image from a mediocre one. I'm not an accomplished musician either but my ear has the ability to pinpoint a singer that is singing out of key, and it can tell when a band is missing spark, or the band members are not playing in harmony with each other. A lot of this for me is intuitive so I leave the fine details of technology to others better qualified than myself but sometimes the discussions on the M9 forum reach levels of absurdity when technical explanations are utilized to justify mediocre photography. Few are willing to say at those times that "the Emperor has no clothes" and that runs contrary to my nature, I'm a social activist. When the M8 first came into the scene, I had very serious doubts about it. It was the B&W images I began to see on the Leica Forum that changed my mind about it, and the day I decided I would purchase one (December 26th) I called a local camera dealer and to my surprise they had one in stock. I asked them to hold it for me. The following day I went and purchased it. Many were on waiting lists back then, so I got very lucky. When I saw my first B&W images I was thrilled, it was a major breakthrough in digital B&W photography. BTW some of the B&W images you posted back then helped to lure me toward the M8, and if I remember correctly, you were the first one to post pictures on the forum showing the magenta problems with black fabric, etc, which led to the need for the IRUV filter solution. Back then the M8 provoked a minor revolution in digital photography and created a sensation. The M8 proved that the rangefinder still had a place in the world of serious photography even in the digital age. However, the M9 has not created the same sensation, despite all the hype. In the hands of capable hands like yourself I am sure it will be used to its fullest potential. I myself haven't been sold on it, and yes for me price is a factor (I'm not a pro making good money on photography and I earn a modest living). I don't have deep pockets, and so I will hold out and see what happens with the next incarnation of the M, hopefully within the next three years. Maybe then I will go for it but not if it hits the markets at $9000.00. For now, the M8 remains as good as always and the results are as great as always. My best to those who are enjoying their M9's. I hope you get the max out of it, even if it is not for me. Again in all honesty I can't reconcile the price tag, not when I see other camera manufacturers producing cameras with significant improvements, yet their prices don't take quantum leaps forward. Buying a Canon 5D Mark II to replace my old Canon 5D in that regard was a no brainer. Now let's get on with the joy of photography... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
!Nomad64 Posted November 9, 2009 Share #259 Posted November 9, 2009 I haven't because: it's not available in chrome; my M8 is still a formidable picture taker; my M8 hasn't ceased to work; I'm not completely sold over the idea; I haven't completely realized why do I need those extra pixels; I don't need the other improvements over the M8; it wouldn't make me any better photographer than my M8 already does; even if I decided to trade my used stuff against an M8 they'd discount me a ridiculous amount; I'm not in the right mood. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markgay Posted November 9, 2009 Share #260 Posted November 9, 2009 The M8 more than does the job Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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