Who would like an interchangeable-lense X2?

[offshore]

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I do want an M mount X2 and would buy one immediately if Leica produces one.

[nhabedi]

I do want an M mount X2 and would buy one immediately if Leica produces one.

 

I want the M9, just a little bit narrower and with sapphire glass and even better high ISO performance, for US$ 499. I'll buy one immediately if Leica offers that. No, make that two...

 

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[felipe-m]

IF the lens module is modular enough, perhaps Leica could offer a A-La Cart offering with say 28, 35, 50 versions. Anything longer in focal length may no pack into the body

 

I wouldnt want the X1 to be interchangeable lens, this would make the cost skyrocket.

 

Not necessarily, with the CL they showed they can do a real entry level camera system with interchageable lenses, in M-mount , without a huge price. It would probably be more expensive that the current X1, but shouldn't be much...

 

And offering several fixed-lens versions is a possibility, but it defeats the purpose of having a compact system...

[tomasis7]

Not necessarily, with the CL they showed they can do a real entry level camera system with interchageable lenses, in M-mount , without a huge price. It would probably be more expensive that the current X1, but shouldn't be much...

 

And offering several fixed-lens versions is a possibility, but it defeats the purpose of having a compact system...

 

learn more history from leica..

 

your suggestion will kill Leica immediately

[thrid]

learn more history from leica..

 

your suggestion will kill Leica immediately

 

So, how does every other camera manufacturer on the planet with a tiered product line stay in business?

 

For one thing you have to keep in mind that a roll of Tri-X shot in a CL or M4 produces the exact same result, because the 'sensor' is the same. With the exception of the D700 and D3 no digital camera follows that rule.

 

CL-D vs M9

 

- APS-C/H vs full frame

- Lower MP count (10-12MP vs 18MP)

- The RF unit would be good, but not as good as the M-series.

- Limited set of framelines (35/50/90 or 28/35/50/75)

- If it had a fixed lens, it would not have the flexibility of the M-series.

- Made in China

 

D300 sales have not killed the D700.

The 5D-II has not killed the 1Ds-III

Edited September 10, 2009 by thrid

[felipe-m]

I got to handle a dummy X1 at the dealer yesterday.

 

Basically it's a highend point and shoot like a Ricoh GR-D with an APS-C sensor.

 

It's probably the best of it's breed, but also the most expensive. At $1999 it's almost twice as expensive as the Panasonic GF1 and then you still have to add the 35mm brightline finder, which knowing Leica will probably cost between $300 and $450 dollars. (VC makes a great 35mm finder for $150)

 

The X1 is NOT the entry level M (CL-D) everyone has been waiting for. It's a highend P&S.

 

I would buy an X2 that had the RF unit from the CL and a manual focus 35mm lens.

I would prefer f2, but that would probably never happen, so I would settle for a 2.8.

I wouldn't care if the lens was fixed.

 

They could also make a version with the equivalent of a fixed 50mm.

 

Interchangeable lenses would be great, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

I've never thought that a CL-D would be a threat to the M9.

 

- APS vs full frame

- Lower MP count (12MP vs 18MP)

- The RF unit would be good, but not as good as the M-series.

- Limited set of framelines (35/50/90 or 28/35/50/75)

- If it had a fixed lens, it would not have the flexibility of the M-series.

 

D300 sales have not killed the D700.

D700 sales have not killed the D3 or D3x.

50D sales have not killed the 5D-II

The 5D-II has not killed the 1Ds-III

 

And then of course they would have to price it in reach of mere mortals.

 

Where's my CL-D, Leica?

 

Gotta agree with most points, especially the last one

 

Kinda makes you wonder why the went for a 2.8 instead of a 2.0 lens, like the D-lux 4 has. If one reason for a fixed lens is an optimized camera-lens match, they could have gone for a 'cron, even if it would have been a bit more expensive...

[felipe-m]

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learn more history from leica..

 

your suggestion will kill Leica immediately

 

Why? If you mean by internal competition with the M, it's been mentioned already, several times, and IMHO it seems very unlikely...

 

I think thrid's points are valid. Hell, I'd be happy with "just" the current features plus IC lenses... oh, and make those f 2.0 primes please

[tomasis7]

So, how does every other camera manufacturer on the planet with a tiered product line stay in business?

 

For one thing you have to keep in mind that a roll of Tri-X shot in a CL or M4 produces the exact same result, because the 'sensor' is the same. With the exception of the D700 and D3 no digital camera follows that rule.

 

CL-D vs M9

 

- APS-C/H vs full frame

- Lower MP count (10-12MP vs 18MP)

- The RF unit would be good, but not as good as the M-series.

- Limited set of framelines (35/50/90 or 28/35/50/75)

- If it had a fixed lens, it would not have the flexibility of the M-series.

- Made in China

 

D300 sales have not killed the D700.

The 5D-II has not killed the 1Ds-III

 

You compare bananas and apples. Leica is "laboratory" and Canikon has automatic robots in factories. Leica sell expensive products. CL D could cost at least 3000€.. not many people can afford. 2000€ is unlikely.

 

IF you didnt know, Canikon sell millions and millions of cheapest DSLR. That proves that most people buy cheapest. IF too few M are sold, then Leica disappear fastly without firm support by M.

 

I already think that 6mp is enough. Dont believe that 18mp will be deciding factor for buying a body for 2000-3000€ more. Hell no, people'd think.

[tomasis7]

IF you are talking about new lenses lineup for X series, R&D costs are maybe not enough to recoup for such little earnings from X?

 

Or is it was M lens compability? Dont go near danger zone, please

[thrid]

You compare bananas and apples. Leica is "laboratory" and Canikon has automatic robots in factories. Leica sell expensive products. CL D could cost at least 3000€.. not many people can afford. 2000€ is unlikely.

 

IF you didnt know, Canikon sell millions and millions of cheapest DSLR. That proves that most people buy cheapest. IF too few M are sold, then Leica disappear fastly without firm support by M.

 

I already think that 6mp is enough. Dont believe that 18mp will be deciding factor for buying a body for 2000-3000€ more. Hell no, people'd think.

 

We are talking about differentiation of product lines with in the company, so products do not cannibalize each other.

 

I didn't say that a CL-D would be cheap, especially considering the labor costs in Germany and the lack of economies of scale.

 

But given the cheaper sensor, cheaper RF unit and other cost cutting measures Leica should be able to sell a CL-D for significantly less money than am M9.

 

2500-3500 Euros for a CL-D is not cheap. That's more than a D700, but it is cheaper than an M9.

[sdai]

Leica's core customer base is rather price insensitive, whether they choose to pay cash or to bust their credit cards ... as long as Leica could figure out something no one can find elsewhere, they'll probably have a run away success. IMO that's exactly why they bet on the S2 and now the X1.

 

I'm expecting the X1 to become the next cult camera after the Digilux 2 among the pocket camera fans.

[tomasis7]

We are talking about differentiation of product lines with in the company, so products do not cannibalize each other.

 

I didn't say that a CL-D would be cheap, especially considering the labor costs in Germany and the lack of economies of scale.

 

But given the cheaper sensor, cheaper RF unit and other cost cutting measures Leica should be able to sell a CL-D for significantly less money than am M9.

 

2500-3500 Euros for a CL-D is not cheap. That's more than a D700, but it is cheaper than an M9.

 

I prefer two digital M at different price classes. it means reduced cost of components which two cameras share. It means more win-win. It could create good 2nd value too.

[thrid]

Leica's core customer base is rather price insensitive, whether they choose to pay cash or to bust their credit cards ... as long as Leica could figure out something no one can find elsewhere, they'll probably have a run away success. IMO that's exactly why they bet on the S2 and now the X1.

 

I'm expecting the X1 to become the next cult camera after the Digilux 2 among the pocket camera fans.

 

I'm part of Leica's core customer base and I am price sensitive. I purchased 3 bodies and 3 lenses new, but this was before their pricing got completely out of control. 5500 Euros is a lot of cash and I would need two M9 bodies (backup).

 

Right now I'm looking at a used M8.2 and VC 2/28. Unfortunately for Leica none of that money will end up in their pocket, so their claim that used bodies will be the entry level model is flawed. They need a tiered product line like everyone else in the market, before they see any of my cash again.

 

The X1 looks like it will be the new benchmark P&S. I got to fondle an example at the dealer and it is very nice. It very much reminded me of a digital Leica 1c. If rumors are true it may be using a Sony sensor similar to what's in the Nikon D90/D300, which means IQ will be stellar, unless Leica somehow managed to screw this up.

 

But the X1 is not exactly a bargain and really doesn't full fill all of my needs. I could use it with the brightline finder and scale focus it, but that only really works if there is enough light available. I need a real optical viewfinder, not just the brightline finder.

 

Ultimately I need a CL-D.

[krabat]

Three people, four opinions.

So, let me add my opinion. The X1 is certainly a nice piece of a P&S camera, and I do believe it will deliver high image quality.

However, as I stated elsewhere, it is not the camera I am waiting for. I've got to admit I was quite disappointed on Wednesday.

Those who remember my posts during the last time know what I am waiting for, and I am not alone with that wish.

Leica please release an updated Digilux 2.

And if it is not possible by no means, then make an X2 with a 28-90 mm zoom lens (according to 35 mm), with at least f2.8 and manual controls, no matter how big it would be, and it does not have to be interchangeable. And add an EVF of a similar quality as it is in the Panasonic G1 - I don't mind if it gets even better. No image stabilisation necessary...

[nhabedi]

And if it is not possible by no means, then make an X2 with a 28-90 mm zoom lens (according to 35 mm), with at least f2.8

 

Given the size of the sensor that would be roughly equivalent to the 17-55/2.8 lenses Canon and Nikon offer. (28-90 would actually be even more, but hey...) They both weigh around 700 grams (more than the Digilux 2 with lens) and cost between 1,000 and 1,300 Euros. Now imagine Leica building such a lens. Certainly it won't be smaller and cheaper, will it? Be careful what you wish for...

[DavGreg]

It is not the camera I am waiting for. I've got to admit I was quite disappointed on Wednesday...

Leica please release an updated Digilux 2.

And if it is not possible by no means, then make an X2 with a 28-90 mm zoom lens (according to 35 mm), with at least f2.8 and manual controls, no matter how big it would be, and it does not have to be interchangeable. And add an EVF of a similar quality as it is in the Panasonic G1 - I don't mind if it gets even better. No image stabilisation necessary...

 

Either that or release a Leica lens of similar quality to the Digilux 2's that will fit a Micro 4/3rds camera.

[Riley]

and the word is, that via Panasonic that is what will happen.

Which creates a perplexing reality.

 

Leica will ostensibly have mFT mount lenses in the marketplace; and yet wont field a body, even a simple rebadge, in what must be the fastest growing format around where there is a lot of interest.

[Rinse]

Hope Leica is listening. This is also wat I would like.

An X2 with a 28-90 mm zoom lens (according to 35 mm), with at least f2.8 and manual controls.

A lens of this focal length may even be fixed, although interchangable lenses with smaller zoom lengths would of course be perfect.

A compact camera with a fixed focal length lens is simply not usefull to me as an "immer dabei" (allways there) camera as Leica calls the X1. I then also need an "immer dabei" lens.

If things stay the way they are now, I will eventually go for the E-P1 or GF1. These cameras have a smaller sensor, but they also do have intechangable lenses.

[krabat]

...Certainly it won't be smaller and cheaper, will it? Be careful what you wish for...

Thank you for your comment. No, I do not expect such a lens to be cheaper and smaller. And an enlarged sensor would also be surely more expensive.

Consequetly, for an appropriately up-dated Digilux 2, I would be ready to pay clearly more than the 1,800 Euros I payed for the D2 - although - the prices for electronic circuits certainly did not increase since 2004.

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[Rower]

Anybody has an idea about how big the lenses would have to be with a Large Sensor like this?

 

Would it make sense on this small body?

 

Could they fit an M mount on the X- series?