gregbxl Posted August 20, 2009 Share #1 Posted August 20, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) hello, as many of you, my dream would be a M8 (or the eventual M9 to come). unfortunately, my wallet doesn't share this view, so i'll be waiting a couple of years for this investment. however, i was thinking about a digilux 2 or 3 (second-hand probably) to taste the famous Leica style... i use currently a Canon 450D and wonders how these Leica/Panasonic old production compare with my actual camera. please share your view on this. many articles on the web reviewed the Digilux 2 or 3, but it was at the launching date and comparisons focused on the other cameras available at that time. we know digital world moves very fast. So, are these cameras still up to date, taking into account it's not so important to have so many pixels and 1600 iso capabilities in many occasions ? i like the fact to use a ring for aperture on Digilux lenses, since this is the control i used the most on my actual Canon. thanks for your comments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 20, 2009 Posted August 20, 2009 Hi gregbxl, Take a look here digilux 2 or 3 compared to new entry level DSLR. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
integrale Posted August 20, 2009 Share #2 Posted August 20, 2009 There're many answers to that question and most of these will not be complete correct nor completely wrong. The easy answer is that you cannot meaningfully compare D2 with D3 and you cannot meaningfully compare either with an (entrylevel) dSLR. Maybe you should read Thorsten Overgaard's song of praise for the Digilux 2: leica.overgaard.dk - Thorsten Overgaard's Leica Sites - Leica Digilux 2 sample photos and tests (as well as Panasonic DMC-LC1) - Page 1 of 3 At least it was Thorsten's articles combined with the numerous confirmation posts on this forum that convinced me to buy a Digilux 2 to supplement my D-Lux 4 and Nikon D300 (an acquisition I do not regret one moment). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michiel Fokkema Posted August 20, 2009 Share #3 Posted August 20, 2009 If you want to taste the famous Leica style a digital P&S will not help you. They are just digital P&S like al onthers. leica made fame with the M-line. Get a M2, a 35mm and there you go. Cheers, Michiel Fokkema Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted August 20, 2009 Share #4 Posted August 20, 2009 Hi, Your Canon has a larger sensor and more MP than the Digilux 2 or 3 and ultimately its more versatile. My advice - keep your Canon and buy some Leica R lenses to use with it. They will work on stop down metering only and manual focus but will definately give you a taste for Leica. Buy an adaptor which is chipped for focus confirmation to work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguewave Posted August 20, 2009 Share #5 Posted August 20, 2009 I own several Leica lens systems. The D2 is a very special camera & can be purchased for around US $500-600. It is very light and a classic form factor. It shoots very fine RAW & Jpegs. It is fun to use and definetly has the "Leica" signature. I shoot plenty of film with my M2 & M3 & don't be fooled, the D2 is just as much fun to use & it's SILENT. Do a search on the forum for "D2" of "Digilux 2" & you will see that this camera has a cult status all it's own. No one has the right to tell you that only one format, camera or system is the only true Leica. You need to find the tool that get's what you want. The D2 is sitting on my desk as I write this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted August 20, 2009 Share #6 Posted August 20, 2009 Yes, do search the forum. It holds a wealth of good advice and opinion. It is impossible to compare it with a DSLR but, used within its limitations of 5mp and slow buffer store, it is a wonderful camera for many purposes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJLogan Posted August 20, 2009 Share #7 Posted August 20, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) As has been pointed out, the 450D has a bigger sensor, which translates to easier-to-accomplish shallow DOF, and to better high-ISO performance. Bigger files, too--of course. These differences will be more pronounced with the D2, as its sensor is smaller than the D3's. The D2's built-in lens and the D3's kit lens are both way better than the average entry-level DSLR kit lens, but Canon lenses of comparable quality are surely available--at a price. What sets the D2 and D3 apart from the pack, both when they were released and now, is the analogue style of their control layouts. If you long for a digital camera that works and feels just like your SLR from the 1970s (albeit, in the case of the D3, a little thicker), then go for it. Otherwise, you're probably better-served with your Canon while you save up for an M-series Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguewave Posted August 21, 2009 Share #8 Posted August 21, 2009 As has been pointed out, the 450D has a bigger sensor, which translates to easier-to-accomplish shallow DOF, and to better high-ISO performance. Bigger files, too--of course. These differences will be more pronounced with the D2, as its sensor is smaller than the D3's. The D2's built-in lens and the D3's kit lens are both way better than the average entry-level DSLR kit lens, but Canon lenses of comparable quality are surely available--at a price. What sets the D2 and D3 apart from the pack, both when they were released and now, is the analogue style of their control layouts. If you long for a digital camera that works and feels just like your SLR from the 1970s (albeit, in the case of the D3, a little thicker), then go for it. Otherwise, you're probably better-served with your Canon while you save up for an M-series Leica. I couldn't disagree more. The D2 isn't about the "analog setup". It's about taking fine images & I can assure you that's just what I get from this camera & have since my first depress of the shutter. If you want to see the results go visit Digilux 2: leica.overgaard.dk - Thorsten Overgaard's Leica Sites - Leica Digilux 2 sample photos and tests (as well as Panasonic DMC-LC1) - Page 1 of 3, as mentioned above. I doubt seriously that I could ever outgrow this fine camera, as it teaches me new things each time I use it. These are just tools, you have to learn how to use them or you won't get results. More of this or less of that is pretty meaningless if you don't have any craft. The D2 will always be an iconic image tool for me & from the results I see from it's use by others on this forum, this should remain so for a very long time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregbxl Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted August 21, 2009 don't you think "leica pictures style" comes mainly about their capabilities in DOF/big aperture... which is not the main advantage of the Digilux 2 ? considering Digilux 3 can be used with famous lenses, it would probably help me to get closer (even if still far from) a M-series camera results, compared to Digilux 2 results (even if the lens is considered by many of you as a very nice one as well) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJLogan Posted August 24, 2009 Share #10 Posted August 24, 2009 To Ben: You're right--the D2 is a unique and wonderful camera in more ways than one. I was harsh. It does produce images with a special quality of light. It's a great size for carrying around all day. It's silent. The lens is amazing. I gave mine to my business partner when I got my D3. When I get to use the D2 again, I always enjoy it. To Greg (OP): If you're considering a D3 as a body for use with Leica R lenses, there are several disadvantages. First, there is no in-body stabilization, so lenses other than the Panasonic/Leica kit lens and the 14-150 telezoom will be unstabilized. Second, the 4/3 sensor size has a couple of potentially negative consequences. The crop factor (the difference between the stated focal length of the lens and the effective focal length on the D3 body) is greater than with a larger-sensor DSLR. A 25mm lens becomes, effectively, a 50mm lens. It's a problem when you want wide-angle, but an advantage if you want longer telephoto coverage. Also, the smaller image circle results in a smaller viewfinder image. While I've gotten quite used to it, many people find the small and relatively dark viewfinder difficult to use--especially with manual-focus lenses. You may want to wait awhile and see if micro 4/3 matures a bit. The m4/3 mount accepts Leica M lenses with an adapter (and at same crop factor as the D3). The first Olympus m4/3 offering is too compromised for me--it does have in-body stabilization, but no eye-level electronic viewfinder, just the LCD screen. The first Panasonic camera has a large, impressive eye-level EVF, but (and I know this is shallow) I think it's just too hideous to own. Having said all that--I love my D3. I'm especially fond of the Panasonic/Leica 25mm f/1.4 prime lens. But I would use my older, manual-focus lenses more often if the D3 had a bigger viewfinder and in-body IS. I occasionally wish for bigger files or better high-ISO performance. What keeps me happy with the D3 is the ease of use--everything is where it belongs, and working the controls feels absolutely natural, so I can concentrate on capturing images. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguewave Posted August 25, 2009 Share #11 Posted August 25, 2009 don't you think "leica pictures style" comes mainly about their capabilities in DOF/big aperture... which is not the main advantage of the Digilux 2 ? considering Digilux 3 can be used with famous lenses, it would probably help me to get closer (even if still far from) a M-series camera results, compared to Digilux 2 results (even if the lens is considered by many of you as a very nice one as well) I own both the D2 & D3. Two completely different animals. They really are unrelated & don't have similar functionality & the images rendered are very different. First, with the D2, at 28mm & F2.0, I get great bokeh & lovely transitions in the OOF areas. It also has a very fine Macro lens. It is SILENT & light. It has AF. The D3 is versatile. I use it with either the 90 Elmarit or 80 Summilux for night shots. It's difficult to focus in low light, but often worth the effort. I also use it with my 250 (giving me a 500mm) lens, which is mounted on a tripod. It's also a fine camera, but it's bigger, heavier, less intuitive & dare I say it, it just doesn't have the same coolness as the D2. The D2 I can & do take everywhere. It always gets the job done, it's fun to use & people love this camera, it's so retro & people always what to touch it & put it in their hands. I keep mine on my desk most of the time, just to enjoy it's design & company. If it's not there, it's on my bedside table, because I just used it to take my last evening frame. It's a wonderful companion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanette Posted August 25, 2009 Share #12 Posted August 25, 2009 dare I say it, it just doesn't have the same coolness as the D2. The D2 I can & do take everywhere. It always gets the job done, it's fun to use & people love this camera, it's so retro & people always what to touch it & put it in their hands. I keep mine on my desk most of the time, just to enjoy it's design & company. If it's not there, it's on my bedside table, because I just used it to take my last evening frame. It's a wonderful companion. Nice... I always enjoy to read these declarations of love for the Digilux 2, and there are quite a few of them. Makes me wish even more that Leica might one day introduce a worthy successor to this camera although - as I wrote in another thread - I think they won't be able to pull this off without a partner and they probably won't find one. My sneaking suspicion is that the Digilux 2 in terms of units sold was kind of a success for Leica but a failure for Panasonic, so Panasonic cancelled it and looked for greener pastures. A laywoman like me thinks it shouldn't be too hard to keep most of the Digilux 2 (including look and feel) and "just" update it with a newer sensor (same size, maybe a few more pixels) and faster electronics, but, again, I don't think this will ever happen. It's probably asking too much in an industry where you have to present something new every other month... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanette Posted August 25, 2009 Share #13 Posted August 25, 2009 BTW, Ben, the link in your signature doesn't work for me - takes me to the starting page of the LFI gallery. This one works: LFI Gallery - Galerie > Fotografen-Galerie > roguewave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 25, 2009 Share #14 Posted August 25, 2009 I don't like much the physical size of the Digilux 2 personally -- too big a nose for my taste -- but it is a great digicam indeed. Now it is a small sensor camera with a huge DoF of course. Comparing it to any APS or full frame DSLR has little relevance from this viewpoint. If one wants the best IQ with shallow DoF, a DMR or a good DSLR with R or Zeiss lenses and a good raw converter are the way to go IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiptw Posted August 25, 2009 Share #15 Posted August 25, 2009 Hmmm have been lusting for a Leica camera for the past few years, to learn the ins and outs of 'manual' shooting but with digital support, and as my priorities can't afford a M8--got me a 2nd hand Digilux 2 in my hands for less than USD 500 just recently. And yep, have not regret it a bit. Well worth the investment for this 'digital old timer'. Love the classic look, the silent usage, the adjustable lens, and the instant fun, in using the 3 shot pictures function. And...I am learning in leaps and bounds on what a Leica is capable of...and hopefully once I can afford a M8 or its successor, will be able to handle it as a pro Get one if you can get hold of one--a great beginner's tool for learning about photography, the old fashioned way. My two cents Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiptw Posted August 25, 2009 Share #16 Posted August 25, 2009 Oops, 'adjustable' as in adjusting focus, focal point--not exchanging lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 25, 2009 Share #17 Posted August 25, 2009 The D3 is versatile. I use it with either the 90 Elmarit or 80 Summilux for night shots. It's difficult to focus in low light, but often worth the effort. I also use it with my 250 (giving me a 500mm) lens, which is mounted on a tripod. It's also a fine camera, but it's bigger, heavier, less intuitive & dare I say it, it just doesn't have the same coolness as the D2. The D2 I can & do take everywhere. It always gets the job done, it's fun to use & people love this camera, it's so retro & people always what to touch it & put it in their hands. I keep mine on my desk most of the time, just to enjoy it's design & company. If it's not there, it's on my bedside table, because I just used it to take my last evening frame. It's a wonderful companion.All of that is true. However, with the Elmarit 28 R mounted,the Digilux3 gets a lot closer to the Digilux2 as it gets down to a decent size. (except for zoom of course) The image quality increases quite a bit over the kit zoom too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregbxl Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted August 25, 2009 the more I read on the Digilux 2, the more I understand it is becoming a legend in its own class, thanks to its old fashion body/controls, its silence and quite fast lens. however digilux 3 can be a though player as well, especially if used with a nice lens and its more recent sensor. so i understand why some of you have both cameras in their bag. i think second hand D3 is more expensive than D2, isn't it ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguewave Posted August 25, 2009 Share #19 Posted August 25, 2009 BTW, Ben, the link in your signature doesn't work for me - takes me to the starting page of the LFI gallery. This one works: LFI Gallery - Galerie > Fotografen-Galerie > roguewave. Jeanette, thanks. I had deleted all my images & am currently working with a friend in a workshop, so I probably won't repopulate the site for a week or 2. BTW, The D2 is a very special camera. Many people on this forum purchase equipment that is 100 times the cost (when all the lenses,,,,) of the D2 & never make an image as wonderful as this camera can render. For a first time Leica user it is a dream. You can set everything to Automatic or take control of everything manually. The signature of this lens is very special and it's ease of use make it a killer camera. Nothing works better than simplicity & this camera deilvers that in a very cool package. For me it's an heirloom, like my M2 & M3. I hope it will always remain with my family. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted August 25, 2009 Share #20 Posted August 25, 2009 the more I read on the Digilux 2, the more I understand it is becoming a legend in its own class, thanks to its old fashion body/controls, its silence and quite fast lens. however digilux 3 can be a though player as well, especially if used with a nice lens and its more recent sensor. so i understand why some of you have both cameras in their bag. i think second hand D3 is more expensive than D2, isn't it ? I'm not trashing the Digilux 3. It is a fine camera. Having owned one, though.. it doesn't have a lot going for it that distinguishes itself from mainstream DSLRs and therefore, its deficiencies stand out. My biggest gripe with the camera was it was simply another version of other camera's I owned.... and frankly, not as good. I found myself wondering about other lenses... and that's when I realized, WHOA... you already have cameras that do that. Whereas, the Digilux 2 is LIKE NO OTHER camera out there. THERE IS NOTHING like it or that compares. Simply put, it is like a camera that has a sensor instead of a piece of film. It has a lens that accommodates most reasonable shooting situations. It has controls that allow you to stay connected to the camera throughout the shooting and creative process and to be downright corny about it, the camera has a soul. When you should with this camera, you're connected. As I sit here surrounded by $20K + of high end Canon gear and lenses (necessities for my job) I can tell you my favorite cameras are my Digilux 2(s). And.... although only 5mp - the finest image quality comes from the Digilux 2(s). I am head over heels for this camera. Here are links to my blog entries and some sample galleries: The Leica Digilux2 - Journal - Motorsports Photographer ~ John Thawley :: Photography of American Le Mans, Grand Am, SPEED World Challenge Pimp MyRide!!! - Journal - Motorsports Photographer ~ John Thawley :: Photography of American Le Mans, Grand Am, SPEED World Challenge Leica Digilux 2 / Panasonic DMC LC1 -Tete-a-Tete - Journal - Motorsports Photographer ~ John Thawley :: Photography of American Le Mans, Grand Am, SPEED World Challenge Learn On A Leica (digital)... Are You With MeCameraman? - Journal - Motorsports Photographer ~ John Thawley :: Photography of American Le Mans, Grand Am, SPEED World Challenge thaw_2766.jpg - Leica Digilux 2 Samples - At The Beach - Motorsports Photographer ~ John Thawley :: Photography of American Le Mans, Grand Am, SPEED World Challenge thaw_237233.jpg - Leica Digilux 2 Samples - Motorsports Photographer ~ John Thawley :: Photography of American Le Mans, Grand Am, SPEED World Challenge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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