jaapv Posted August 17, 2009 Share #1 Posted August 17, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) If the M9 appears in September, and if it is all we expect it to be, what will happen to the M7 and Mp? I suspect demand for the M7 will drop near to zero, and the Mp only marginally more. We know Leica will not foresake film cameras, but will it be sustainable? Will Leica drop the standard models and offer only a-la-carte options? It might be the wisest course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Hi jaapv, Take a look here What will happen to film M cameras? (Speculation warning!). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
aesop Posted August 17, 2009 Share #2 Posted August 17, 2009 If the M9 appears in September, and if it is all we expect it to be, what will happen to the M7 and Mp? I suspect demand for the M7 will drop near to zero, and the Mp only marginally more. We know Leica will not foresake film cameras, but will it be sustainable? Will Leica drop the standard models and offer only a-la-carte options? It might be the wisest course. ...I would offer my opinion, Jaap, but I really don't see the point, seeing as it is highly unlikely to impact decisions that have already been taken. There is also the little question of disk space. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted August 17, 2009 It is not about the decisions Leica will make - I am not Frank to offer gratuitous, ill-informed and senseless "advice" The hidden question is, what do we think a full-format DRF with current-day image quality will do to the remnants of the film market. There must be something to carry the medium, that is obvious, but does the current population of pre-owned M bodies satisfy that need. Is there any interest to purchase a new film M other than a personalized premium product like the a-la-carte models? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmitch Posted August 17, 2009 Share #4 Posted August 17, 2009 Jaap - I think you have identified the issue precisely - it must now be at the point where there are at least enough second hand bodies to satisfy needs, prices in the used market are falling and I suspect there are few who "must have" a new body particularly with the easy availability of very high quality service and repair globally. It seems to me much easier now to find precisely the body / specification you are after than it was just a few years back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted August 17, 2009 Share #5 Posted August 17, 2009 Well if you're worried about it go out and buy one now! I don't see what the M9 has to do with it, people who use film will still use film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted August 17, 2009 I think there are quite a number of Leica M users that refused the cropped M8 sensor and are carrying on shooting film until a full-format digital M comes out. So it would eat into the M7 market. I'm not worried. If I buy another film Leica it will be an LTM one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 17, 2009 Share #7 Posted August 17, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) We can expect vignetting problems with uncoded lenses on the M9. The latter will never be open like a film M most probably. Just a guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted August 17, 2009 Share #8 Posted August 17, 2009 A FF digital M with no need for UV/IR filters is what I want, and expect. I am one of those to whom the M8 has never appealed, and I am a definite to go for the M9 if it meets these criteria (and I can afford it). The third killer, for me, has always been the Billy Bunteresque form factor of the M8, but I would swallow this for the FF and UV/IR issue resolutions. If it does the job, I would replace my M7 with it, but you would have to pry my M2 and II from my cold, dead fingers. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
christer Posted August 17, 2009 Share #9 Posted August 17, 2009 Wouldn't the M9 price be an important factor? $ 10,000 or more? Or slightly less? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang Esslinger Posted August 17, 2009 Share #10 Posted August 17, 2009 Two reasons why M7/MP might attract buyers: - full format camera which does not become obsolete (ok, the film system as a whole is, but within this system the camera will not be overtaken by new products) - price, esp. of interest for people who want to try out the range finder system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted August 17, 2009 Share #11 Posted August 17, 2009 ...price, esp. of interest for people who want to try out the range finder system. Currently in the UK an M8 is around £500 (600 Euros) more expensive than an M7 and £200 more expensive than an MP. It doesn't take a lot of film and processing costs to eat up that difference. I was surprised when I looked up the coasts, as I'd thought there's be a bigger difference between film and digital. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted August 17, 2009 Share #12 Posted August 17, 2009 Jaap, remember the video report regarding whether the film cameras were still in production? We got to see a small run being assembled while the Forum folks were visitng. During that presentation Leica stated that production of the M7&MP combined was now only about 100 cameras per month for the entire world. It was said that most go to the Japanese market. You would have to assume that some of those will never be unpacked or have film put in them So effectively the film M production only exists as a tiny trickle on demand all ready. My opinion is that any new M9 should not materially affect that miniscule production. The handful of people wanting to purchase these cameras new now are doing so for specific reasons. Good for them! I hope that they continue to be available forever. If the M9 appears in September, and if it is all we expect it to be, what will happen to the M7 and Mp? I suspect demand for the M7 will drop near to zero, and the Mp only marginally more. We know Leica will not foresake film cameras, but will it be sustainable? Will Leica drop the standard models and offer only a-la-carte options? It might be the wisest course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted August 17, 2009 Share #13 Posted August 17, 2009 Yes, just a guess. We can expect vignetting problems with uncoded lenses on the M9. The latter will never be open like a film M most probably. Just a guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share #14 Posted August 17, 2009 Jaap, remember the video report regarding whether the film cameras were still in production? We got to see a small run being assembled while the Forum folks were visitng.During that presentation Leica stated that production of the M7&MP combined was now only about 100 cameras per month for the entire world. It was said that most go to the Japanese market. You would have to assume that some of those will never be unpacked or have film put in them So effectively the film M production only exists as a tiny trickle on demand all ready. My opinion is that any new M9 should not materially affect that miniscule production. The handful of people wanting to purchase these cameras new now are doing so for specific reasons. Good for them! I hope that they continue to be available forever. I will join you in that hope. But I would not be surprised if that small trickle were to be integrated in the a-la-carte as an option. That kind of market is not really price-sensitive, I would guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rona!d Posted August 17, 2009 Share #15 Posted August 17, 2009 What will happen to the M9 if i cannot put a roll of Tri-X in it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrewer Posted August 17, 2009 Share #16 Posted August 17, 2009 what will happen to the m9 if i cannot put a roll of tri-x in it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share #17 Posted August 17, 2009 What will happen to the M9 if i cannot put a roll of Tri-X in it Don't worry, there be a special set of red-dot screwdrivers to open it up available at a modest 399,00 Euro. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted August 17, 2009 Share #18 Posted August 17, 2009 The market for new film M's will continue to erode will the development digital M's and especially the FF M9, but the expected cost difference is very substantial between an M9 and an MP. Hence, I'd conclude that the 100 per month might become 90 a month, but there's still plenty of buyers out there that don't want the digital aesthetic, or maybe more to the point, the cost of computer/software/printer acquisition and the commitment to the Adobe learning curve. For a satisfied M7 owner with a low power PC for emails and web browsing, what's the total cost and effort required to move to an M9. I presume there'll be no change from £8,000 and 2 years concentrated effort to get back to producing fine 18"x12" images. If you struggle with cutting and pasting, it might be a hell of a decision to make. Further, the used market can completely satisfy all but those that would like to own, or gift, a new M7 MP body - presumably they're the 100 a month crowd. "After 50 years of dedicated service this Corporation would like to present you with a near-mint, little-used Leica M7." Ha ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang Esslinger Posted August 17, 2009 Share #19 Posted August 17, 2009 Currently in the UK an M8 is around £500 (600 Euros) more expensive than an M7 and £200 more expensive than an MP. It doesn't take a lot of film and processing costs to eat up that difference. I was surprised when I looked up the coasts, as I'd thought there's be a bigger difference between film and digital. That is indeed not much of a difference. But the M8 in not FF, and if someone plans for a digital FF in the long run, it might be sensible to start with M7 due to the lens line-up. All very constructed speculation of course (well, not completely: I bought a used M7 with 2 years guarantee at renowned dealer; no money for Leica, but at least for the dealership). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted August 17, 2009 Share #20 Posted August 17, 2009 What will happen to the M9 if i cannot put a roll of Tri-X in it It would make a few people get their coffee down the wrong way if you could.... Wouldn't that be so Leica, release product no one is expecting. - Carl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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