woodyspedden Posted November 10, 2006 Share #61 Posted November 10, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hey everyone There is an after market company called Photo Equip Accessories from PhotoEquip that manufactures a set of step rings (39mm, 46mm and 55mm) to a 77mm final ring with grooves cut into it for use with a polarizer. I have been using it with a B&H polarizer for almost a year and it works really well. (The grooves allow you to see the polarization amount without removing your eye from the viewfinder. Anyway I thought this might be really helpful with our current problem of IR in that you would have to buy only one IR cut filter. I just checked and the product (called filter view) costs $120. Not cheap but cheaper than three or four cut filters and you have the advantage of the polarizer view. I have no association with the company. The filter view product was written up in the LHSA Viewfinder several issues back. woody spedden Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 10, 2006 Posted November 10, 2006 Hi woodyspedden, Take a look here Cut Filter: Must See This. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
J_Brittenson Posted November 10, 2006 Share #62 Posted November 10, 2006 I just spent $500 on a batch of filters from Adorama. Maybe they'll arrive before my M8 sometime next month or so. They listed everything except a 36mm filter, so I got a 37 with a 36-to-37 step up. This is an expensive workaround given there will be very little use for these filters once Leica does a proper fix for it. BTW, your 21 street test shot seems to have that typical large reddish circle in the middle that I've seen with other wide angle lenses using filters (center filters on LF). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 10, 2006 Share #63 Posted November 10, 2006 Jan you might be right there maybe 21mm is maybe a touch to wide for these. I have the 24 and will do it when i get a bigger filter. Normally i think this type of shot would be without a filter anway. Not perfect but it does what is lacking in the M8 right now and that is all we are looking for Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffWright Posted November 10, 2006 Share #64 Posted November 10, 2006 Outside sun I did not ,WB straight from camera. Notice with the greens plant in background. Look how sharp the 35 lux is In the outdoor shots it looks like first is with filter, second without, correct? Great work, Guy, if this works indoors I may have you to blame for fiscal ruin again. And I just got an enticing mailing from Leica USA--buy one M lens new, get two free 6-bit upgrades.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_l Posted November 10, 2006 Share #65 Posted November 10, 2006 Guy - ...looks like the lower left and lower right both have the predicted cyan shifts from using the filter - might be also in the upper corners but they are so saturated it would be hard to see.... So, use the filter and get cyan or don't use it and get out-of-focus areas where IR hits the sensor at a different point than the visible light is focused (reported in other threads). This has nothing to do with blacks and magenta. And looks like neither with or without a filter works, and even in B&W the OOF areas will hurt, requiring a filter always when IR is present, even in B&W? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_l Posted November 10, 2006 Share #66 Posted November 10, 2006 By the way, if this is true, it may be data that Leica does not have yet - the OOF area from IR and visible and the cyan shift from filters on wide angles. If it does turn out to be true, they need to know it - it would certainly impact a proposed solution - but I don't know the best way to inform them of this - they must be getting bombarded right now. Don't want them to do it all over again and think they have it right but have missed something subtle but important... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 10, 2006 Share #67 Posted November 10, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) It maybe different on the inside also. If they put a different IR filter over the sensor and in this case stronger than maybe a moot point, this certainly better not be the final solutions is external filters. Now i had no issues with 35 and up and i am sure the 24 would be really close. Depending on subject to also we may never see the ill side of it. Plus really this filter is to cut IR with your blacks . I don't now about the lose of sharpness issue with a IR filter they still look really sharp, i would have to read about that but from where I am sitting I just am not seeing that in what I have done so far Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted November 10, 2006 Share #68 Posted November 10, 2006 The Edmund Optics site cited elsewhere offers filters using two methods to block IR. One is by use of an IR-blocking glass. The other is by means of a multilayer interference coating. Obviously the latter has angle limitations. Edmund says it shouldn't be used with angles of incidence greater than about 30 degrees. --HC Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhoelscher Posted November 10, 2006 Share #69 Posted November 10, 2006 By the way, if this is true, it may be data that Leica does not have yet - the OOF area from IR and visible and the cyan shift from filters on wide angles. If it does turn out to be true, they need to know it - it would certainly impact a proposed solution - but I don't know the best way to inform them of this - they must be getting bombarded right now. I'll bet that that's why the Leica statement that Sean relayed said that their proposed solution is only for 6-bit coded lenses ... they must know that there'll be cyan corners in the wide lens photos ... so the camera firmware can compensate, knowing the focal length. Looks like good evidence that they already know .... DH Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 10, 2006 Share #70 Posted November 10, 2006 800 in filters and 800 in coding will not make me a happy boy at all. I'll bend but not bend over and kiss my butt either. They need a real fix , this works and it has it's limits but if they say the fix is filters than it's death for them and they better know it now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_l Posted November 10, 2006 Share #71 Posted November 10, 2006 Guy - Re OOF due to both IR and visible: Sean mentioned in a post that he actually thought the image got sharper with the filter....he said he will test further, but this may actually be an example of OOF without the filter. And it would only be in areas that were being hit by, and reflecting, IR along with visible light - I'm not sure how much or little that would actually show up in a normal scene. Re cyan shift: Adding a filter on the inside may work, under the microlenses the light hits at a much less severe angle, right? that is the purpose of the lenses... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertwright Posted November 10, 2006 Share #72 Posted November 10, 2006 It may not be cyan exactly, it may be vignetting, which the coding can help resolve. Any time you put any kind of a filter on a 21mm you are making it more difficult at the corners to get good exposure. As to the angle of incidence issue, it is true that with dichroic filtration you get less effect as the angle of incidence increases. Maybe this is why Leica declined to put a dichroic Ir filter on the sensor and just went with absorbing glass. the canons have both methods of Ir filtration. Summarizing, it seems to me at least the Leica fix is the only fix, filtration on the front. If they add dichroic filtration to the sensor it will be of limited effect off-axis, and if the increase the thickness of the coverglass to absorb more Ir they get a degraded image. Besides, changing the spec of the kodak sensor seem to me to be not an option in the near to far-near term. I am very glad that the B+W filters clean this up, it was a deal breaker for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_l Posted November 10, 2006 Share #73 Posted November 10, 2006 Requiring only coded lenses can't be what triggers a shift back from cyan unless somehow it also knows that there is a filter present causing the shift, right? And any shift they do to a coded lens that requires knowledge of a filter will be a nightmare - having to remember to set a menu item whenever a filter is in use and reset it when there is no filter on the lens.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 10, 2006 Share #74 Posted November 10, 2006 Well I guess that all depends on how the microlenses truly work if the IR filter is under them than that light is already scattered correctly and I would imagine firmware and the coding will correct that. i just won't settle for external. if i have to code my lenses than I can deal with that and the IR is on the inside with a firmware update. That to me sounds like a final solution. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 10, 2006 Share #75 Posted November 10, 2006 Robert you have a point about the vignetting . Let me just try holding the bigger one in front, give me a minute to do that Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_l Posted November 10, 2006 Share #76 Posted November 10, 2006 So a 21 (effective 28) or wider will have a new set of problems when filters are used? How about the new super-wide Tri-Elmar? Dang! We may be falling down the rabbit hole here, with each "solution" leading to a new crop of problems... ..I'm eager to see what comes of B&W folks testing the out-of-focus issue to see how real it is - have we just not seen t so far, or is it not very serious? The magenta thing seemed invisible until people knew about it and now it is everywhere.... I was ready to take delivery - I shoot B&W 100% now...but I i also shoot 28 (effective) or wider all of the time....I guess at least I'd get to choose which set of problems I want, the set with filter or the set without.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted November 10, 2006 Share #77 Posted November 10, 2006 Guy, could you do inside/outside shots with the CV15? If you have no filter, you could hold up a larger one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhoelscher Posted November 10, 2006 Share #78 Posted November 10, 2006 Requiring only coded lenses can't be what triggers a shift back from cyan unless somehow it also knows that there is a filter present causing the shift, right? Exactly right. I'll bet that the updated firmware that they ship with their new "barrier" filters will have a new menu item, "barrier filter: ON/OFF" You are correct, a PITA; but maybe the solution to that is just to always use the filter, then you won't forget to set the menu item. DH Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_l Posted November 10, 2006 Share #79 Posted November 10, 2006 Filters cause flare and reflections and aren't very good on wide angles....not a permanent solution. And expensive! And mostly unavailble right now sue to high demand... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 10, 2006 Share #80 Posted November 10, 2006 It is still there no need to post it but maybe the 24mm is the widest . i will try that with the larger filter on Monday. The 15mm would probably surely break the bank on it when it comes to the Cyan. Now if leica says this is the only way and than I need to code my lenses also. Not so sure I will do that also. This should not be like this in the first place. If i have to code them than there footing the bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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