sdai Posted June 8, 2009 Share #21 Posted June 8, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) If history evolves as the forum members wish, Leica have taken the world's camera industry. LOL Peace ... stay cool as a cucumber, and watch the WWDC live coverage, there may be something interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 Hi sdai, Take a look here Challenges for new Leica CEO. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest BigSplash Posted June 8, 2009 Share #22 Posted June 8, 2009 Ummm- the Visoflex was discontinued, what is it - forty years ago? A bit unrealistic to demand support.And why should the customers provide a product roadmap:confused: Marketing by voting? Where do you get the idea TTL metering was seen as a gimmick? It was introduced on the M6 as soon as electronics were compact enough to fit in a standard M body, with development help of the university of Munich. Not to mention the M5 and Cl. SLR seen as a fad? Tell that to Leicaflex SL owners. What about special editions. The first Leica Luxus - goldplated and snake leather dates from 1929. All of your premises are clearly mistaken - not very confidence-inspiring for the conclusions. I get the strong impression that the rant is not based on solid facts, but rather what we call "borretafelpraat"- pub talk. And this one is really funny - that is the essence of a rangefinder - what we are paying for.. You have misunderstood my point that has been well documented in many accounts about Leica history. Leica "owned" the 35 mm market having invented it, and subsequently dominated the high end quality 35mm sector. They ignored SLR and the Japanese entered this segment and only a decade later did Leica wake up!. Subsequently the missed the TTL metering as not required. They supported Leica MR meters on Leica M4's and it took many years to offer a Leica M5, and M6 with TTL......this had been standard on all Japanese TTL cameras since many years. The luxus cameras started many years ago, but it continues today...Leica White, Safari and recently Black paint ...plus Titanium, and then of course there is the Leica custom program started under Hermes ownership. If this truly makes money great, If that is what Leica users want fantastic..........hoepfully this activity is NOT a distraction from getting manuf. costs down and volumes up, which I am sure it is. Steve .... If the forum does not speak up and give pointers to each other then I think it is easy for the factory to be inward looking. Fortunately I believe that Herr Kaufmann is open to hearing from the forum and apparently he reads some of the material . I hope the new CEO who is somewhat invisible currently has the same view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooky Posted June 8, 2009 Share #23 Posted June 8, 2009 For the first time in my nearly 40 years as a Leica user, I believe, and am confident that Leica actually knows what it needs to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted June 8, 2009 Share #24 Posted June 8, 2009 Oh my! Sometimes the wold just don't want solutions no matter how well intended your original post was. Anyways, B&O does actually have one very successful thing in their requirements to Bang & Olufsen franchise shops (large shops with B&O from wall to wall) as well as to shop-in-shops where they require a whole department installed in certain ways and kept clean of all other products. I mean, it's pretty obvious why you walk into a B&O shop, it's because you want a solution and I'm pretty sure the one they suggest is a B&O one. Which is the smart move. Some times they have to offer 24 months free credit, at other times they just have to ask the highest price. Depends on the economy. But the key is that they stay loyal to their product idea and can tell you how it will work for you. Where they're at at this moment I don't know. They have been close to bankruptcy 15 years ago and then took off big time till the financial crisis took over less than a year ago; and the CEO was sent off though it might have been more wise to cut off their chairman.. I own two B&O light dimmers and remote controls for them, and I'll stay with that. I think what Leica is currently doing is right because it's core values. It was as well for B&O, and it is also the reason LEGO is doing well again. They found their core values. And Apple as well, let's not forget them. None of them invented anything new but reinvented their original reason to be here. And I think Leica is doing so too. For B&O back then 15 years ago it was design and simple systemsl, and in their televisions image and sound quality as the main things (where others were more focused on complicated features). But a television is about image and sound and B&O looked great and you coud easily hear the speaking. I think the Leica picture is way more complicated than we can draw on a piece of paper. One thing is internal traditions and ways "we have always done this" (which the new factory might help change even further). Then there's who's buying Leica today and how you get them as clients in the first place; and then how you make them collect the systems. And then this rotten image that Leica is way up there expensive (it's really not when you look at the write-off on Leica compared to other systems); I think that is the sole most important show-stopper preventing new potential clients from even opening their eyes. But somehow I think they know a lot about what is needed and what they should be doing. Simplicity, stellar built quality, superior lens design ... etc ... all the things excamplified in the 21/1.4, M8.2, S2. At least there's no signs that Leica is trying to be Canon - and that's a major plus point in my book They're trying to be them self in a new and slightly changed digital age. Also markets are different from continent to continent. The approach is way different in Japan than it is in Berlin and in Los Angeles. I personally like the expertise in Leica Berlin and Red Dot, coupled with the ability to make a good deal when required. I mean, you can't make a good deal in YSL. Anyways, keep up the good work. It's fine to have ideas about how things should be or how problems could be solved, and it's certainly okay to express them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted June 8, 2009 Share #25 Posted June 8, 2009 Thanks for this...I went onto your web site. Clearly your photos as a professional are superb, I sincerely congratulate you. I have taken note of your Leica kit makes which is awesome and makes me envious, and your knowledge ranging from white balance technique to colour correction with Adobe was very interesting for me. Thanks. I have been surprised by the reactions of others on this thread as I thought the object was to provoke positive debate and not to input "one word responses" or state that "the subject has been covered many times" or to suggest that "I do not know my Leica history" and try to be clever.... The fact is that great things seem to have happened since Steven Lee left and a level of confidence has returned. Now there is a new CEO and all we know is that he was with Zeiss as a consultant and that Herr Kaufmann steps down as executive chairman next year. I can tell you that rumours abound with respect to M9 (fine that is to be expected), Digital R9 replacement is not discussed, the S2 is a fabulous camera but is not stocked by dealers that I know as it is too expensive and its unique points vis a vis a Hasselblad are unclear. While all that is going on I know at least one dealer that is very angry about the idea of factory owned Leica Boutiques and questions why he has made the investment if these Boutiques have an unfair competitive advantage. The Leica M8 is a fabulous camera as I am finding out. I am delighted that I am now able to capitalise on my collection of lenses etc. and yes I look forward to using my old Visoflex with Bellows and with Telyt lenses thru to 560mm ....The photos I have taken are technically superb, and being digital are immediately available. Long may it continue and we do not wake up some day and find the situation that happened a few years ago when Hermes had financial difficulties with the banks. At that time some dealers were telling me that Leica was finished, that my kit was obsolete and worthless, and there would be no new Leica products. Fortunately they werfe wrong. During the last few years Herr Kaufmann's investment and management decisions has turned things around ...long may it continue and I hope that the forum can help Leica users to give inputs. I do not see this as being an armchair CEO. As someone who has as CEO successfully turned around 7 companies, some of which where of same size as Leica. All were in high tech (electronics and software). I know this can only be achieved if you listen to your clients and then try to consider this in business terms. It seems that several forum members do not agree and are quite critical of even trying to give an input. They are wrong! I only wish I had the benefit of an active forum when I joined the companies that I have helped. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 8, 2009 Share #26 Posted June 8, 2009 Frank, it's just that what you say has been repeated so often here. Not a reason to be impolite though so here are my comments FWIW. 1 Grey imports have not a high end feel about them. > Very expensive gear may be acquired this way nowadays. People buying in HK know what they are doing and Leica must be happy to sell some stuff this way as some buyers would not pay full prices anyway. 2 The M8 is not full frame and this is a severe handicap. > This has been repeated here ad nauseam. Better get a cropped sensor than a FF one with a lot of vignetting. The real handicap is the lack of 12mm and 15mm lenses at Leica but CV lenses are not bad at all. 2b Why would a semi pro buy an M8 kit? > Not sure what a semi pro is exactly but anyway most Leica users are lawyers, doctors, engineers let alone CEOs and GMs Hardly a scoop either. Leica need to compete with the Canon 50D. > Not my opinion. Leica means excellence. There are plenty of good stuff elsewhere. A Ferrari Modena is not supposed to compete with a Ford Mustang. 3 Leica need a SLR digital camera (R9 digital) that can use the existing lenses at full frame. > We don't stop repeating this here. 4 Leica have great faith in the S2 camera ...but is this really going to be a Hasselblad killer? > Ditto. It's a bet that i don't understand personally but there is nothing we can do about this. 5 Leica has always been regarded as the most rugged camera. > Just a myth if you ask me. Was true for the M3 for instance but my M4-2 is less rugged than most of my Nikons to be honest. 6 Leica after sales servicing and repair takes too long and is too expensive. > True but hardly a scoop either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 8, 2009 Share #27 Posted June 8, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I can tell you that rumours abound with respect to M9 (fine that is to be expected), Digital R9 replacement is not discussed, the S2 is a fabulous camera but is not stocked by dealers that I know as it is too expensive and its unique points vis a vis a Hasselblad are unclear................ While all that is going on I know at least one dealer that is very angry about the idea of factory owned Leica Boutiques and questions why he has made the investment if these Boutiques have an unfair competitive advantage. The S2 hasn't even been released yet, which explains why you don't see it stocked by the dealers! Also we don't know if its too expensive - no one knows the retail price yet. I suspect that part of the reasoning behind their new London store will be to help support this new system and their aspirations for a larger slice of the pro market. I would hope that they will offer a hire and fast track repair service too (things I'd want if I were a pro and to be persuaded to invest in a new system). As for Leica 'boutiques' having an unfair competitive advantage - do they? They can sell at less than RRP and sell other product lines of course, as well as catering for the used market (or should I say 'pre-loved'). You mentioned earlier that you want to be able to find all Leica items in one place - probably a good chance they'll do that too (dealers after all have to buy their stock, and they aren't going to buy every item in the catalogue, they'll stock what sells and obtain other items to order). I don't think anyone here disagrees with your sentiment that you want to see Leica prosper as a company, but I think they have their business plans drawn up already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted June 8, 2009 Share #28 Posted June 8, 2009 Somehow this whole discussion has a familiar ring to it. Who was this again, I forget? At some point a girlfriend or a secretary came into the fray. The 30k pile of Leica stuff rings a bell + the general tone. Welcome back.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted June 8, 2009 Share #29 Posted June 8, 2009 It's not "tummydoc" is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted June 8, 2009 Share #30 Posted June 8, 2009 jimmy pro?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 8, 2009 Share #31 Posted June 8, 2009 That was my first thought too, Stephen, but I think Tummydoc is a bit more likely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted June 8, 2009 Share #32 Posted June 8, 2009 Well, everyone says Leica trawl this site and keep a good eye on whats going down in the world to make their plans, so my hunch is its Brutus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted June 8, 2009 Share #33 Posted June 8, 2009 Foxxy Lerrrrrve from Drawn Together? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted June 8, 2009 Share #34 Posted June 8, 2009 Goldfinger? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2009 Share #35 Posted June 8, 2009 Its about time we had another one of these armchair CEO threads, thanks! Its also been some time since anyone threatend to prosecute Leica. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Posted June 9, 2009 Share #36 Posted June 9, 2009 Frank, thank you for your thoughtful post. I would hope that those who find the topic repetitive would simply move on rather than posting personal attacks. Your thoughts have value to me and, although I do not care to comment on their substance, I enjoyed reading them and considering their implications. Thank you. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted June 9, 2009 Share #37 Posted June 9, 2009 I own 12 Leica M lenses, Visoflex, M4,5,6 and now the M8. My day job for the last decade has been as CEO successfully turning around high tech companies from loss to profit and then high growth. I believe the new CEO has a difficult but hopefully achievable task. I and i am sure all Forum readers wish him well....after the great job Herr Kaufmann has done, after Stephen Lee. I see the following: 1 The way Leicas and their accessories are sold needs significant improvement. >Today grey imports that surface in Europe from Hong Kong, apparently often with VAT unpaid, and with a guarantee only recognised in Solms does not have a high end feel about it! > The Leica Boutiques that have been set up in Japan, Paris, New York and shortly London is a great idea, provided it is set out like Bang & Olufsen do business: > Pricing is the same at any B&O dealer , > Pre and post sales service is excellent at B&O (Leica has a variable performance) > Sales people at B&O know what they are selling....Leica specialist shops know their product, but mail order Leica suppliers, and many Leica retailers usually do not! > Specialist Leica dealers need to have an incentive to invest in the shop, staff training, stock of the full Leica range, and in their relationship with the factory. > Visiting Hong Kong recently gave me a chance to hold new 0.95 Noctilux, new Tri Elmar Asph....etc etc. and see the new S cameras. I ask where is this possible in Europe? 2 Leica M series is "the" unique product that Leica have, and with the M8 they have re entered the market in the short term driven by sales from people who have a Leica investment already. The trouble is that they have two "cripplers" to address: a) The M8 is not full frame and this is a severe handicap. > Saphire Glass rear screens and improved shutter is good but at £1000 extra? > Expensive wide angle lenses such as 21mm becomes an also ran 28mm on an M8, and there is no way to get a 15mm on an M8. (NB the Zeiss and voigtlander 15 and 18mm was doing a rouring trade on Leica analogue models) Why would a semi pro buy an M8 kit ? (Compare the M8 with lenses to a Canon 50D with a zoom lens that takes excellent pictures at a price roughly the same as the Leica M8 body). Please note: > I used to be able to identify Leica photos from those taken by other makes. (It was relatively easy...edge sharpness, contrast and red colour saturation all excellent with a Leica). Frankly it is still possible but is becoming more difficult to identify the Leica photo these days. > Leica need lower costs and this means higher volume manufacture and continuous improvement / capital investment. In my view this has yet to be properly addressed and it is vitally important I believe to have an offering at a price that competes with the Canon 50D for example 3 Leica need a SLR digital camera (R9 digital) that can use the existing lenses at full frame....All of the points made about the M8 apply. 4 Leica have great faith in the S2 camera ...but is this really going to be a Hasselblad killer? If it does fantastic...it will help Leica business. If it does not then I would worry that scarce R&D resources are not being used on M9, and R10digital 5 Leica has always been regarded as the most rugged camera. The lenses are made of glass (not plastic), the bodies are a casting (not plastic) etc. Now I am told using the M8 seems to be dangerous if photographing in light rain, and the sensor is liable to attract dust....I see this as an item to correct. 6 Leica after sales servicing and repair takes too long and is too expensive. The result is that there is a bunch of repair people working from home that will do a M4, 5 6 service for about £170 compared to double or tripple that figure at Leica. This is not healthy in the long run. Comments? frankowen I agree with some of what you say here but to assume that the M8 without a full frame is a negative with everyone is an incorrect assumption as is calling a 28 mm lens an also ran. Personally I use my 21 which equates to a 28 on the M8 about 90% of the time. There are some good 15's out there that can be coded, mounted and used very well on the M8. The M8 is not "dangerous" in light rain or dust anymore than any other digital camera that is not a professionally sealed camera body. Leica will never compete with Canon, Nikon or any other Japanese camera company because they are tooled for mass production and that is not Leica's modus operendi and is the reason Leica users invest in their products. Improvement yes but what manufacturer of any product couldn't improve? I agree with you on service as they are not very good at it and as for sales people who are trained to know and sell the equipment they do not do a very adequate job of training people to understand the Leica philosophy of photography. Leica is a niche company and may always be so although I understand the new facilities will help speed up the manufacturing process the quality that goes into not being a mass manufacturer is a reason to purchase their products. What I'm really curious about is why everyone who posts here and claims to be an authority on something has to give a laundry list of the equipment they own as though it is an introduction of authority. Personally I see nothing in your post that hasn't already been discussed here many times nor do I see any concrete solutions by you for the perceived problems you believe Leica has, but to each their own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_w Posted June 9, 2009 Share #38 Posted June 9, 2009 I was surprised to see the personal attacks, especially from members of the forum who I have never noticed make such attacks before. On reflection, 'though, I have to say that the comments of the OP don't read like the insights of a typical business turnaround manager. Seasoned turnaround CEOs are much more concerned about cash flow, debt servicing, market segmentation and positioning, etc. They are quite dispassionate about the product itself. More concerned about establishing priorities and deciding where to commit limited resources. That said, this is a topic I would expect to see alive and well, and oft-repeated, on this forum. My 2c. Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 9, 2009 Share #39 Posted June 9, 2009 I was surprised to see the personal attacks, especially from members of the forum who I have never noticed make such attacks before. I just had a quick look through this thread again - I can't see anyone making 'personal attacks' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 9, 2009 Share #40 Posted June 9, 2009 I just had a quick look through this thread again - I can't see anyone making 'personal attacks' Suggesting that the OP could be a troll sounds somewhat personal if you ask me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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