KM-25 Posted February 12, 2009 Share #161 Posted February 12, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Chillaxtive anyone? Makes thoughts flow more "freely"..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Hi KM-25, Take a look here Panasonic in talks to buy Leica from Mr. Kaufmann. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
charlesphoto99 Posted February 12, 2009 Share #162 Posted February 12, 2009 Their problem is surely cameras. The new world of sensors, electronics and software is not their stock-in-trade and that's where they need help. That's where Panasonic could bring something to the party. Not sure why Leica didn't team up with Panasonic on the M8 to begin with in at least a silent partnership for Panasonic to do the internals. Hiring the Japanese to do the electronics or even having it made/partially made in Japan would probably have saved them a lot of grief. Screw the "Made in Wetzlar" only snobs and put out a camera that works when it needs to work. I paid $5K for a Nikon D3 and it's been golden from day one and of course it's made in Japan, most likely on a dreaded assembly line. I would certainly pay $5K for an M made in Japan as long as I was guaranteed it had the same QC my Nikon does. I love my M8 but it's been back to the hospital one too many times. I also think Zeiss lenses are made with very high quality. I think those who dispute that have never used one. My iPhone was assembled in China (along with my Mac desktop and laptop). These are technological wonders and for the most part have been extremely reliable and get used heavily. Why there's mystique about German manufacturing being better I don't know. Design, yes, but assembly is another thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 12, 2009 Share #163 Posted February 12, 2009 You guys need to go to Sendai and see for yourselves how a D3 is put together ... the total compensation to the young ladies (many of them are just high school graduates) who hand build these technical wonders are probably not more than 1/3 of what Dr. Kaufmann is paying to his employees in Solms. If they move the production to China, cut (at least) another 50% from the labor costs, more if it's built in Thailand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted February 12, 2009 Share #164 Posted February 12, 2009 Not sure why Leica didn't team up with Panasonic on the M8 to begin with in at least a silent partnership for Panasonic to do the internals. Hiring the Japanese to do the electronics or even having it made/partially made in Japan would probably have saved them a lot of grief. Screw the "Made in Wetzlar" only snobs "Made in Wetzlar" (or Solms) isn't snobbery, it's vertical integration. Leica has had far less trouble getting their own electronic design in the S2 to work properly than the outsourced electronics and software of the M8 and DMR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StS Posted February 12, 2009 Share #165 Posted February 12, 2009 No offense Andy and im not usually a Leica basher, but I have heard of three different people getting faulty(not working at all like they should) brand new 50 lux asph´s from the dealer. That shouldnt occur when they are hand crafted and hand checked by people in white coats. I do love Leica glass though Mine is fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAG Posted February 12, 2009 Share #166 Posted February 12, 2009 Mine is stiff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Mitchum Posted February 12, 2009 Share #167 Posted February 12, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I would have just assumed that under Panasonic ownership the M8, R10, etc. and their successors would continue to be "Made in Germany" since they command a price premium anyway. Everything else (including the two models that were said to fit between the D-Lux 4 and M8 whatever they happen to be) would be made in Japan. All I want is a full frame M9 and a true successor to the Digilux 2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 12, 2009 Share #168 Posted February 12, 2009 Now I found it ... it's in the 1st half year's report for 08/09 fiscal year. Net sale: 52 mil. Euros Cost of Material: 22.9 Mil.Euros Cost of Personnel: 21.744 Mil. Euros Other operational expenses: 17.2 Mil. Euros. Group Net Loss: 7.171 million Euros (in which 7.144 is on Dr. Kaufmann's tab, the minority share holders swallowed 27000 Euros.) R&D expenditure is merely 8.982 Mil Euros, 17.26% of its net sales, 41.3% of its labor costs, and 23.1% of labor and operational costs combined. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 12, 2009 Share #169 Posted February 12, 2009 Mine is stiff. Camera porn again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 12, 2009 Share #170 Posted February 12, 2009 9m Euro = "merely"? Sounds like a decent amount for a small company. What proportion of Apple turnover is in R&D? Something like half the workforce at Solms are in R&D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikFive Posted February 12, 2009 Share #171 Posted February 12, 2009 Mine is fine. Mine was as well, but this was not something like a stiff focus. It was defaults that a brand new lens shouldnt leave the factory with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikFive Posted February 12, 2009 Share #172 Posted February 12, 2009 Chillaxtive anyone? Makes thoughts flow more "freely"..... Is that the same as weed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 12, 2009 Share #173 Posted February 12, 2009 9m Euro = "merely"? Sounds like a decent amount for a small company. What proportion of Apple turnover is in R&D? Something like half the workforce at Solms are in R&D Thanks to the slow business, now I've some time to search the Nikon numbers on R&D for you. How much it that? In 2008, they've spent 582.6 million dollars, converting into Euros based on today's rate that's 453 million Euros, 50 times of Leica's spending on R&D. It's hard to calculate Canon's spending on camera R&D because they have a larger chunk of other businesses but you've got the idea. Leica's operation mode funded by private capital will not work well facing competition. Any way, my point was Leica's operational costs are too high. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted February 12, 2009 Share #174 Posted February 12, 2009 *sigh* I see the armchair CEOs are out again... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 12, 2009 Share #175 Posted February 12, 2009 But, what is Nikon's turnover? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 12, 2009 Share #176 Posted February 12, 2009 But, what is Nikon's turnover? The percentage won't make much sense, Nikon is spending 50 times on R&D than what Leica is spending, the results already can be seen. If Leica becomes a subsidiary of Panasonic, their R/D expenditure could easily double, triple, quadruple ... I understand that Dr. Kaufmann may have tried his best but I'm afraid the result may not be what he is expecting to see. I repeat, Dr. Kaufmann has my utmost respect and admiration, I just don't believe the result may be the best for him or for us. I love buying Leica stuff, and I want the company survive, I want the brand and the quality it represents survive. You guys see me bashing Nikon whenever possible, I've made many friends in that company, and my primary personal email is nikon something ... likewise, I love Leica but I hate seeing what's happening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterP Posted February 12, 2009 Share #177 Posted February 12, 2009 "Made in Wetzlar" (or Solms) isn't snobbery, it's vertical integration. Leica has had far less trouble getting their own electronic design in the S2 to work properly than the outsourced electronics and software of the M8 and DMR. Perfectly unfounded statement . Since the S2 has not even been released there is not basis for this claim. "Vertical integration" - ????????????????? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoersch Posted February 12, 2009 Share #178 Posted February 12, 2009 "Made in Wetzlar" (or Solms) isn't snobbery, it's vertical integration. Leica has had far less trouble getting their own electronic design in the S2 to work properly than the outsourced electronics and software of the M8 and DMR. Shall we wait till it comes out and see if and how well it works? So far, nothing of what Leica showed off at Photokina has made it to the market yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 12, 2009 Share #179 Posted February 12, 2009 *sigh* I see the armchair CEOs are out again... Regards, Bill If you know the size of our business you would never think so, BIll. LOL Anyway, that has nothing to do with my hobby so let's avoid it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 12, 2009 Share #180 Posted February 12, 2009 Perfectly unfounded statement . Since the S2 has not even been released there is not basis for this claim."Vertical integration" - ????????????????? The S2 will be here soon... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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