Is 60MP going to be the standard for a few further generations? Is that what you would want?

[Stuart Richardson]

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7 hours ago, bobtodrick said:

Immaterial in my mind..it depends on the photo and the intent.  I find that for MY needs 24mp of my Q to be quite sufficient.

It's like in the film day...of course 4x5 gave better empirical quality than 35mm...but for many types of images this was not important.

I wasn’t planning on showing him your prints. I was planning on showing him mine or clients, where it does make a difference. 

[FrozenInTime]

Sony and the industry are moving towards 24 - 35 Megapixel semi-stacked sensors that provide faster readout times; for more dynamic video image processing including optimisation for the EVF and focus systems. The slow 60 Mpixel 100ms scan sensor will at some point be seen as a evolutionary dead-end.

[Tailwagger]

Not to go all PC, but as crop is considered a four letter word by many, in general its better to consider added resolution as providing the ability to carry fewer, smaller, cheaper primes, rather than, in the case of the SL for example, a back breaking holy trinity of zooms. Given the ever increasing cost of glass, lowering the number of lenses and dollars one is forced to have on hand isn't a bad thing. 

I was perfectly happy with 24 Mpx and as others have mentioned, I do tend to prefer the tonality of my early work with the 240 and M10.  IMO, it would be nice if Leica re-introduced the M/M-R notion and offered, as it has done with the SL, a lower res M with a tick more speed and perhaps a little more personality (though I fear the perceived loss of personality has more to do with improvements to dynamic range than pixel count).  In this era sharpening, denoising and upsizing has gotten so good that when there is a need to go large, pixel count is less of a limiting factor than proper exposure and technique. 

That said, after trading my M10, I found worth while benefit from the added resolution of 10-R, not solely for the ability to carry fewer optics, but equally for the possibility to crop landscape out of portrait as well as visible improvements when printing.  Same again with the M11 where I've seen no particular reason to pull back from 60 mpx.  Do I yearn for an 80-100Mpx M?  Only in my nightmares.  But in truth, higher or lower pixel count is way down the list of determining factors for upgrading and I do tend to trust Leica's commitment to deliver tangible improvement, which ever way they go.

Edited December 3 by Tailwagger

[bobtodrick]

3 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I wasn’t planning on showing him your prints. I was planning on showing him mine or clients, where it does make a difference. 

Don’t get me wrong…there are instances where bigger is better…Ansel Adams for example really couldn’t have done his stunning work with 35mm.

I was more addressing the fact that many do automatically think bigger is better…not necessarily so.

We do a booming business in used.  On the one hand I weep for the person who trades in barely used Q2 for a Q3 because he ‘needs’ those extra megapixels.

But I feel good for the person that buys the Q2 used at a great price 😀

[Stuart Richardson]

Yes, I agree. I am happy with the 47mp in my SL2. I would like 60, but the changes in the SL3 have not made it worth it to me at the current cost. But my job for nearing twenty years now has been as a printer. My clients are almost exclusively museums and galleries or artists making prints or editions for them. 24mp is enough for nearly all prints that are not wall sized, but you see the advantage of higher resolution quite quickly as well. Modern printers can print at 600 to 720dpi, but even at 300 you run out of resolution quite quickly in moderate sized prints. More resolution means better tonality, less aggressive sharpening, less moire and less need for interpolation and invented data. If your goal is printing beyond 20x24in/50x65, the difference is real and noticeable. 

[ELAN]

A few photographs of mine captured with the M10-R were recently printed for exhibition at 2.5 meters (100 inches) wide.  I've never seen my photos printed this big and at this quality, and I couldn't believe how good it looked, with all the fine details printed crisp and sharp, even images at ISO 6400.  There were about 100 photographs on exhibition, mostly from professional photographers and captured at similar venues as mine (street protests), and many people at the exhibition commented that my Leica M photographs "looked the best".  I guess 41mp is all I need.

[PhotoCruiser]

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vor 53 Minuten schrieb Stuart Richardson:

f your goal is printing beyond 20x24in/50x65, the difference is real and noticeable. 

I had printed one of my Q2 photos to 32x18 inch and it turned out beautiful.
However i would like to have 60MP but don't change from the Q2/SL2 to the Q3/SL3 as it would be a very expensive switch for two for me arguable better cameras where most new goodies (except higher MP's) is for my use only "irrelevant or nice to have".
For the money i could buy a SL2-S or new SL3-S body plus some more lenses what would make more sense for me.
Chris
 

[fenykepesz]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb algrove:

No

Buyerblitz about 3 rumored Leica cameras 2026-2027

regarding image quality, i wonder what shutter system a new M12 may hold in that likely smaller camera body, considering the youtube video mentioning how the new body dimensions may shrink by a few percent ?  because space is so scarce, i imagine, Leica will need to install an electronic global shutter, instead of the traditional mechanical shutter, which subsequently will also leave enough room for a 3 or 5-axis IBIS system.  in that respect i just hope that this new, hypothetical, global shutter sensor will perform just as well as the mature sensor technology in my m11d...
 

[algrove]

1 hour ago, fenykepesz said:

regarding image quality, i wonder what shutter system a new M12 may hold in that likely smaller camera body, considering the youtube video mentioning how the new body dimensions may shrink by a few percent ?  because space is so scarce, i imagine, Leica will need to install an electronic global shutter, instead of the traditional mechanical shutter, which subsequently will also leave enough room for a 3 or 5-axis IBIS system.  in that respect i just hope that this new, hypothetical, global shutter sensor will perform just as well as the mature sensor technology in my m11d...
 

Good points. For me an M with IBIS would be what I am looking for, but global shutter? 75MP?

How about 50MP or less?

[Jeff S]

19 hours ago, Jean-Michel said:

I am retired and down to just two cameras: a M-P(240) and and SL2, and assorted lenses. My largest printer is an Epson P6000, so my largest prints are about 20, by 30 inches; daily i print much smaller on an Epson P800. 

Having larger file sizes is fine, there are no particular disadvantages to a 47 max sensor, or larger ones. Is that is essential for quality images? Probably not. I have made prints up to 20 by 30 inches in-house from a Canon 5d, Canon 5d2, Leica M9 and Leica mM-P(240) and my wife's Canon G10; and from customers' various 35mm and medium format files. All quite satisfactory.

One cannot deny that today's mix of large mpx sensors and various camera features such as IBIS, AF, etc. can make for some rather stunningly sharp and detailed images — some amazing, other much less so. And that for any social media or digital viewing anything other than a camera phone is overkill.

Back in 2009 the late Michael Reichmann posted the following on his then Luminous-Landscape site: https://luminous-landscape.com/kidding/  (that site is now a pay site, but this article appears to be available). Worth a read and reflection on what we do today.

To get back onto my high horse: if you do not print it, it does not exist.

 

+1 on everything here.  For me, primarily M10M and SL2, with Epson P900 (I like easy black ink switching vs P800). And I remember Michael’s article on LL. I miss his commentary, and still enjoy his Retrospective photo book.  We were having discussions about the SpeedMat wall mounted mat cutter shortly before he passed; it makes my custom matting and framing a breeze. 

[fenykepesz]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb algrove:

Good points. For me an M with IBIS would be what I am looking for, but global shutter? 75MP?

How about 50MP or less?

i guess i got spoiled with the m11d but i am happy for its 60MP sensor so i wouldn't want to go with much less.  but as you say, @algrove, the global shutter, i am wondering how well that will work in the context of taking pictures with an M camera, typically under suboptimal conditions, with difficult light situations, hectic scenarios and such...

[algrove]

6 minutes ago, fenykepesz said:

i guess i got spoiled with the m11d but i am happy for its 60MP sensor so i wouldn't want to go with much less.  but as you say, @algrove, the global shutter, i am wondering how well that will work in the context of taking pictures with an M camera, typically under suboptimal conditions, with difficult light situations, hectic scenarios and such...

For me street with slow moving subjects that I can freeze with my current M11, but with a global shutter?

Why keep chasing the MP game up to 75MP when the native SL3S is 24MP and works just fine.

[lct]

27 minutes ago, algrove said:

[...] Why keep chasing the MP game up to 75MP when the native SL3S is 24MP and works just fine.

To keep both compactness and resolution i guess. With 60mp or more, an M camera can remain compact while taking decently sharp images in crop mode when zooming at 1.3x or even 1.8x.

[algrove]

The SL3S does multi shot mode to 96MP while still giving a 24MP RAW just in case MS mode did not work.

[lct]

I don't know, i have no experience with larger Leica cameras than my R4s from the 80s sorry.

[M11 for me]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb algrove:

slow moving subjects that I can freeze with my current M11, but with a global shutter?

Do you see a connection here? Is it not rather the case that with both global or rolling shutters there is no difference here when you mention slow moving subjects. 
 

Sport might be different (golf clubs) or video activities. Then we all would not like to see a reduction in dynamic range or noise that is often mentioned together with the global shutter.

[algrove]

In this regard, many set their camera to mechanical shutter instead of hybrid. I just keep my ss at 1/500 with 35, 50 and sometimes 90mm lenses.

[jaapv]

6 hours ago, algrove said:

For me street with slow moving subjects that I can freeze with my current M11, but with a global shutter?

Why keep chasing the MP game up to 75MP when the native SL3S is 24MP and works just fine.

Because Canon’s marketing ploy to make a big fanfare when they  went from D30 ( 3.1 MP) through D60 (6,3MP) to 10D (8,4MP) that MPs became the holy grail with Sales Directors. After a period of relative calm the second lap of the race is on, with the deeply ingrained human more=better instinct as a powerful driving force, with the “mine has more than yours” sentiment reinforcing it. Leica has to follow more or less to avoid being perceived as past it. 

[algrove]

Why not keep native MP lowish with multi shot mode available for larger files say for landscape work?

Many of us remember when 18MP was just fine with 36x48 prints that I saw displayed at Fotokina when the M240 was announced that night by Kaufmann with its whopping 24MP sensor.

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Hallo,

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[Jon Warwick]

6 hours ago, algrove said:

Why not keep native MP lowish with multi shot mode available for larger files say for landscape work?

 

I have been using a GFX100 and M11 for multiple years, and often make prints to 40x30”. But more recently I got a 24mp SL2S and tried various options:

(1) multi shot mode? Can be ok, but I’ve found it better in a completely still studio environment. I can sometimes detect the faintest of micro blur from the process of cobbling together multiple files. Does a good job of eliminating aliasing though, which is what enhances apparent resolution;

(2) for more general use including landscapes, I’ve stumbled across Adobe’s “Super Resolution” working very well - but and it’s important to note - specifically for DNGs off my lower resolution 24mp SL2S (that’s bolted to a long telecentric lens, in my case 50mm 1.4 DG DN). The file is resampled to 40” wide at 300dpi, and I find the end result very convincing in its resolution and (crucially) its rendering (ie, providing clear detail that’s not hyper-sharpened).  I’m very pleasantly surprised by the result it achieves with SL2S files. I prefer the result of Super Resolution over multi shot on the SL2S.

I can’t say the same for files processed in “Super Resolution” off my M11, which often look “wrong” to my eyes and I hence find unusable, being hyper-sharpened and digital looking.

Edited December 5 by Jon Warwick