Leica M EV1: The first M with EVF instead of Rangefinder

[charlesphoto99]

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The M10-R offset the 1-stop faster shutter speed needed with a stop better high iso and dynamic range than the M10. And the M11 one stop more than the M10-R.

People have gotten spoiled. I remember when TMAX 3200 came along and it was like god's gift from heaven (we could push it to 6400 which wasn't really possible with TRI-X). And many of us loved the golf ball sized grain. In some ways the M9 was the most creative digital camera I've ever shot as it forced one to work within its limitations. Not every photograph needs to be an absolute pristine duplicate of reality. That's boring and leaves little room for emotional resonance in photography today. Embrace the imperfections as sometimes those can be perfect. 

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[serpentventis]

Super new to leicas, and my apologies didn’t read 46 pages of this thread (just got my digital CL, which basically made me want m11 too) do you still focus with ev1 by aligning two overlays or its replaced with the focus peaking red outline thing?

[SrMi]

43 minutes ago, serpentventis said:

Super new to leicas, and my apologies didn’t read 46 pages of this thread (just got my digital CL, which basically made me want m11 too) do you still focus with ev1 by aligning two overlays or its replaced with the focus peaking red outline thing?

Focus peaking and magnification, or using zone focusing.

[jaapv]

High MP count is not necessarily an advantage for an M camera (or even in general)

[pgk]

4 hours ago, jjroroek said:

and there are things like a leica m that is made for streetphotografie where the use of a tripod is totally not usefull

Seriously? Mobile phones are for street photography these days. The world has moved on from the M as a street camera. And in any case why on earth would you need a 60MPixel camera for street photography?

Edited 22 hours ago by pgk

[bcaslis]

12 hours ago, pgk said:

Well I don't. The concern is that Leica will do reputational damage for producing a compromised camera. On this forum there is quite a lot of interest in the M EV1, on others there is a lot of bafflement as to why it exists at all and a lot of negativity. 7k is a lot to pay for what are at best marginal improvements over other EVF camera with adapters and M lenses.

I disagree that the EV1 is a "compromised" camera. Find me another 60mp full frame camera the same size as the EV1. Before you say Sony A7CR that thing has hot garbage for an ECF and ergonomics only a Sony user would like. From comments I'm seeing from people who have actually tried one, most people are positive about the EV1.

[jaapv]

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16 hours ago, jjroroek said:

leica m that is made for streetphotografie where the use of a tripod is totally not usefull

That is a complete fantasy. The M was designed as a general use camera: travel, reportage, landscape, PJ work, family, events, weddings, etc. and is still in. use as such by the majority of owners. 
 I once did a Leica Akademie  workshop on street photography with Günther Osterloh, Leica M icon and renowed street photographer. One of his techniques was to slowly and ostentatiously build up  his tripod and camera in a busy spot, wait twenty minutes which blended him in as part of the  scenery. After that he could shoot about anything as nobody took any notice of him any more.

[SrMi]

35 minutes ago, jaapv said:

That is a complete fantasy. The M was designed as a general use camera: travel, reportage, landscape, PJ work, family, events, weddings, etc. and is still in. use as such by the majority of users. 
 I once did a Leica Akademie  workshop on street photography with Günther Osterloh, Leica M icon and renowed street photographer. One of his techniques was to slowly and ostentatiously build up  his tripod and camera in a busy spot, wait twenty minutes which blended him in as part of the  scenery. After that he could shoot about anything as nobody took any notice of him any more.

+1 

Lewis Baltz is one of the most well-known photographers who used a Leica M (very low ISO film) with a tripod.

[Leslie22]

I disagree that the EV1 is a "compromised" camera. Find me another 60mp full frame camera the same size as the EV1. Before you say Sony A7CR that thing has hot garbage for an ECF and ergonomics only a Sony user would like. From comments I'm seeing from people who have actually tried one, most people are positive about the EV1.

Add me to that list , After about 4 weeks VERY happy with the m EV1 (many years an M & SL shooter)

 

 

[pgk]

10 hours ago, bcaslis said:

From comments I'm seeing from people who have actually tried one, most people are positive about the EV1.

There is already a secondhand one for sale by a UK dealer.

[pgk]

6 hours ago, Leslie22 said:

I disagree that the EV1 is a "compromised" camera. Find me another 60mp full frame camera the same size as the EV1. Before you say Sony A7CR that thing has hot garbage for an ECF and ergonomics only a Sony user would like.

You answered your own question. Disliking a camera used by vastly more people than the M EV1 doesn't mean to say that its not a better specified camera. As a Leica M (ex-SL), Sony, Nikon and Canon user, I can say that whilst the Sonys are nothing like as straightforward to use as Ms are, they do deliver superb results and even work pretty well with most M lenses.

[lct]

4 hours ago, pgk said:

I disagree that the EV1 is a "compromised" camera. Find me another 60mp full frame camera the same size as the EV1. [...]

My Sigma FPL has a similar sensor and is a bit more compact than my MEV1 but it has no built-in EVF admittedly. This said, cameras needing adapters can hardly be considered otherwise than compromised as far as M lenses are concerned. The way i understand the word, the MEV1 is the least compromised among mirrorless cameras dedicated to M lenses so far.

Edited 5 hours ago by lct

[pgk]

1 hour ago, lct said:

The way i understand the word, the MEV1 is the least compromised among mirrorless cameras dedicated to M lenses so far.

Depends on your definition of 'dedicated' I suppose. My Sonys do a pretty good job of using the vast majority of M/LTM lenses and it only requires one button to magnify the image. And if I want I can use AF lenses on it too. Hardly a compromise, unless of course, you absolutely need perfect corners from wide-angle lenses ..... Of course the 'compromised' Sonys cost a fraction of the price of the M EV1 despite their versatility.

[lct]

5 minutes ago, pgk said:

Depends on your definition of 'dedicated' I suppose. My Sonys do a pretty good job of using the vast majority of M/LTM lenses and it only requires one button to magnify the image. [...]

So does my Kolari mod Sony but it cannot do autozoom with M and LTM lenses, as opposed to the MEV1. This may matter less to you than it does to me, but in any case, the MEV1 is the least compromised camera, let alone that some WA and UWA M lenses don't do well on non modded Sony bodies due to their thick sensor stack.

[bcaslis]

6 hours ago, pgk said:

You answered your own question. Disliking a camera used by vastly more people than the M EV1 doesn't mean to say that its not a better specified camera. As a Leica M (ex-SL), Sony, Nikon and Canon user, I can say that whilst the Sonys are nothing like as straightforward to use as Ms are, they do deliver superb results and even work pretty well with most M lenses.

I sincerely dislike the Sony cameras but I have Nikon cameras also, I'm not Leica myopic. However I have not called the Sony's compromised, but I don't like them for various reasons (and I have owned Sony cameras in the past). What I am objecting to is calling the EV1 compromised. From some views, the EV1 is less compromised than the M11 since I can see things before taking the pictures I can't on the M11 compared to the EV1 (unless you use the back screen in case why not use a smartphone). The myopic view on this thread (and this forum) is the EV1 is a failure because it doesn't have a rangefinder. The only reason it is attractive to me is because it doesn't have a rangefinder, and I think the same is true for everyone liking the EV1.

[jaapv]

Compromised is indeed not the right word - more correct would be “limited”. Basically it is as limited as the M11. We are Leica people and can understand it.
The outside world  will react otherwise as it can accept the limitations of the M11,  it is clear that it is a rangefinder camera and thus not comparable to other mirrorless cameras. The EV1, however, is another matter; it is an EVF camera and to the outside mind should similarly featured as other EVF cameras - the lack of AF and all that comes with it will create an impression being compromised, especially at the price. As I said all along: it is attractive to part of the Leica users, especially M users, but outside that group I doubt that there will be many sales. Whether the target customer base will be sufficient to support the camera commercially remains to be seen.Leica’s best chance would be if it turned into a cult thing - that is where influencers could be of help.

[lct]

Autofocus has nothing to do with M cameras in my book. Manual focus is not a limitation but the essence of them since M lenses are manual, and this is true the same way for the M11 as the MEV1.

[jaapv]

yes - in your book. Unfortunately that book is only read in Leica circles. That was precisely my point.