A collector's dilemma... M11-p Safari or M11 Monochrom

[illopodori]

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My fellow forum members, as a collector of mostly analogue cameras, I have decided to expand my collection to include valuable digital cameras in the future, not necessarily limited editions. I started this journey with brand new cameras so I could shoot with them as well. As a good start, my first piece is a Hasselblad 907x & CFV100c. Later, I am considering adding some older digital cameras too.
Let's get to my dilemma now; I am torn between a Leica M11-P Safari edition and a Leica M11 Monochrom. I have several analog M models in my collection, so Leica is a brand I know very well, just like Hasselblad. Any opinions about this issue from forum members would be appreciated, preferably with your experiences, personal thoughts, and suggestions.
Cheers to you all.

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[250swb]

Are digital cameras collectible? I thought you either just used them until they broke and become unrepairable, or collect them by never taking them out the box and never discover if they work or not? I've nothing against having a nice camera, but a new film never made a film camera obsolete, but a new sensor or feature can make todays digital camera tomorrows faded star.

For example, is the M246 Monochrom a collectible camera or just a good camera? The secondhand price reflects it's a good camera, but it's not going to be going up which you'd expect from a collectible camera because it has competition from the M11M, which will then have competition from the M12M, etc. So buying an expensive camera now doesn't make it a valuable or collectible camera in the future.

Edited Monday at 09:35 AM by 250swb

[Chris W]

Agree, most things digital only ever go down in value.

I guess the slight exception is all the Leica limited edition offerings - Bond 007, Lenny Kravitz etc...

But it's a gamble and they pretty much have to be unused, still in the plastic wrapper. A Safari edition is more 'collectible' than a standard M11, but it's still going to go down in price over time, just a bit more slowly perhaps.

[jakontil]

I have been trying to tell my mind to collect digital M but always failed to collect n keep them like collections.. dont get me wrong i always like the special edition and limited edition but they are just as good as long as they exist..other than that they quickly become obsolete when the new gen arrive.. unless if it’s a film M camera, that’s another story

here’s my take, get anything you prefer, use them and time will come sooner when u think u want to replace them

i had the 907, inc the 100c but sold lately since i sell my 503cw and 80CFi.. keeping my rolleiflex 2.8 Gx instead

[pgh]

Digitals are consumable, depreciating goods. I have a few m10s but I cannot think of them as a collection - they fill work purposes and go down in value all the time and by the time my son is old enough to use them if he wants to they will not have aged like an m3, but rather probably something more like a 1990s Compaq desktop. 

If the answer isn’t obvious to you by your own uses consider spending the money another way - buying yourself time off work to use said cameras and make photos, traveling with your partner if you have one, investing in a company that does real good, donating to your local charity, etc. 

[jgeenen]

I admire collectors who are collecting items to preserve them for the future rather than looking for investments into the future. While the collection of digital off-the-shelf-cameras might not be the financially wisest decision, it is certainly worth to preserve the cornerstones of the current digital age for future generations. 

The M11 in general is in my point of view a cornerstone in the Leica M development and worthwhile to be collected. I am personally more leaning towards the Monochrom that places itself with its color blindness into a niche of todays unlimited availability of imaging technology, whereas the Safari in my eyes is just a color variant of an already told story.

 

 

[T25UFO]

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Save your money and get on the list for the M11D 100 year edition.  That’s the only Leica digital camera that’s worth buying as an investment.

[illopodori]

Wow! My fellow forum members... Thank you all for your valuable opinions. They are gold to me. First of all, my entire collection consists of previously used cameras, so I don't have any unopened or unused ones at all. Another thing is, digital cameras are not new to me as an end-user (I probably have one of the first digital cameras from Sony, the DSC-F1), but I have a question mark as a collector. My budget for collecting is not $30k a piece like some of the legendary collectors here, so I need to choose wisely when I explore new areas. My fairly large collection of Leica lenses makes me want to add digital Leicas to my collection as well.

The argument about digital cameras as collector items makes me think of this analogy: back in the 1990s, most electronic cameras, like anything powered by batteries, with motors or automatic features, were considered dead-end future items and never seen as collectibles. Some of these cameras from different eras proved that wrong, like the Hasselblad Xpan, Mamiya 7ii, Pentax 67ii, Contax T3, Leica M7, etc.

Another perspective is that, after some technological advancements, some digital camera features might still be considered more 'purer' than recent ones. For example, in a few years, professional cameras with AI might be introduced, similar to phone cameras now, or someone might develop a 1000-megapixel camera, claiming you just shoot what you see from somewhere high and crop out people or backgrounds from the nearby village. With that in mind, the very first 18-megapixel cameras (I still think that just sufficient to any kind of photography need other than printing out 100 yard billboards) could become the 'purist digital cameras' of that era.

In conclusion, I think starting to collect high-end digital cameras now is risky, but I still believe that in 10-15 years, these may be the last 'purist' cameras ever made.

[jakontil]

5 minutes ago, illopodori said:

Wow! My fellow forum members... Thank you all for your valuable opinions. They are gold to me. First of all, my entire collection consists of previously used cameras, so I don't have any unopened or unused ones at all. Another thing is, digital cameras are not new to me as an end-user (I probably have one of the first digital cameras from Sony, the DSC-F1), but I have a question mark as a collector. My budget for collecting is not $30k a piece like some of the legendary collectors here, so I need to choose wisely when I explore new areas. My fairly large collection of Leica lenses makes me want to add digital Leicas to my collection as well.

The argument about digital cameras as collector items makes me think of this analogy: back in the 1990s, most electronic cameras, like anything powered by batteries, with motors or automatic features, were considered dead-end future items and never seen as collectibles. Some of these cameras from different eras proved that wrong, like the Hasselblad Xpan, Mamiya 7ii, Pentax 67ii, Contax T3, Leica M7, etc.

Another perspective is that, after some technological advancements, some digital camera features might still be considered more 'purer' than recent ones. For example, in a few years, professional cameras with AI might be introduced, similar to phone cameras now, or someone might develop a 1000-megapixel camera, claiming you just shoot what you see from somewhere high and crop out people or backgrounds from the nearby village. With that in mind, the very first 18-megapixel cameras (I still think that just sufficient to any kind of photography need other than printing out 100 yard billboards) could become the 'purist digital cameras' of that era.

In conclusion, I think starting to collect high-end digital cameras now is risky, but I still believe that in 10-15 years, these may be the last 'purist' cameras ever made.

Ah ok now i get it… collecting as if it is the last gen that still works, not quite a return of investment.. if that’s the case… probably a monochrome m10 leitz edition in my book.. still has baseplate, made of brass, top and bottom and using a non bsi sensor, not sony’s like nowadays sensor know of

the last sensor of its kind that built with monochrome in mind since the beginning 

[illopodori]

18 minutes ago, jakontil said:

Ah ok now i get it… collecting as if it is the last gen that still works, not quite a return of investment.. if that’s the case… probably a monochrome m10 leitz edition in my book.. still has baseplate, made of brass, top and bottom and using a non bsi sensor, not sony’s like nowadays sensor know of

the last sensor of its kind that built with monochrome in mind since the beginning 

That would be a great choice... Let me look it up. Thanks for the suggestion.

[pgh]

1 hour ago, jgeenen said:

Monochrom that places itself with its color blindness into a niche of todays unlimited availability of imaging technology, whereas the Safari in my eyes is just a color variant of an already told story.

Except Leica has already released multiple monochromes before that, (as have Pentax and Phase One), so that’s an already told story too. 

[nthomas]

Grab the M11 glossy black paint instead. Black paint series stand a role in the Leica history

[Chris W]

2 hours ago, illopodori said:

Some of these cameras from different eras proved that wrong, like the Hasselblad Xpan, Mamiya 7ii, Pentax 67ii, Contax T3, Leica M7, etc.

 

Except some of those are as good as it gets for what they do - the Xpan (compact wide, film camera), Mamiya 7ii (medium format film rangefinder), and even then a lot of the buyers are YouTubers making content and if anything in the Xpan breaks there is no fixing it.

Not much in digital can't be bettered. You should compare your digital analogy to computing, phones and games consoles. Only nerds collect 90's and early 2000'sexamples. They've all been bettered by newer digital developments.

There is an argument for the M Monochrom, because the images have 'a look' but again, if anything goes wrong on it it might never work again, an expensive door stop.

 

[illopodori]

1 hour ago, Chris W said:

Except some of those are as good as it gets for what they do - the Xpan (compact wide, film camera), Mamiya 7ii (medium format film rangefinder), and even then a lot of the buyers are YouTubers making content and if anything in the Xpan breaks there is no fixing it.

Not much in digital can't be bettered. You should compare your digital analogy to computing, phones and games consoles. Only nerds collect 90's and early 2000'sexamples. They've all been bettered by newer digital developments.

There is an argument for the M Monochrom, because the images have 'a look' but again, if anything goes wrong on it it might never work again, an expensive door stop.

 

Dear Chris, everything you mentioned is correct. Nothing to add. Out of the blue, this idea came to me after you said "door stop"—I couldn't help but think of going towards it now :)… The amazing Leica M11-d

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Edited Monday at 03:13 PM by illopodori

[Ne314satel]

The only digital M camera that won't get any cheaper and is suitable for collecting is the M9P Titanium. If you find a late issue