Leica SL3 vs Hasselblad X2D II price, reasonability and real use

[Paul2660]

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If Leica does come out with a mirrorless MF camera, it's safe to assume it will cost considerably more than current offerings from either Fuji or Hasselblad, and will be using the same 100MP sensor that everyone is using currently. Now almost 8 years old or older. GFX100 I believe was the first to have it, and it came out in 2019, announced in 2018. Unless they reach and get the 150MP but that would require some interesting camera considerations.    

 

Paul 

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[Olaf_ZG]

2 hours ago, mirrorless said:

Shooting weddings with a Q3 and a SL3 with the 21mm + 75mm APOs was worth the switch from Sony for me. I am really happy now after some adaption time. However I currently often find myself looking into the HB system mainly for private use away from the paid jobs. But then I read here the optical performance of some HB lenses lacks and reminds me that I already own the best lenses out there with the two APOs beside M-Glas. I might rent the HB with some lenses and plan a direct shoot-out with my Leica gear before making a decision. However for professional use the weather-sealing and the video functions are really a big plus with Leica gear and of course that you can shoot 100mm+. Not to talk about possible restrictions when shooting with flash. (Honestly I have no big knowledge here yet in the HB world) Also there are quite some horror stories in the net when sending HB gear out for repair, and every day counts for a professional photographer waiting for the gear to come back. Yesterday I was shooting a wedding in rainy conditions without problems. BTW the best and most emotional pictures I get with my little Q3 very close in the scene which is really not scaring off people. Not sure how people would react on a medium format camera. This topic I find also really important and it hasn't really focused on here yet...Capture the moment vs. 120% technical perfection...

I wouldn’t switch systems for weddings. Your combo is weather proof, HB isn’t. You need at least two cameras, trading would be expensive. HB’s processing workflow is a no-go for reportage when mixing systems.

The grass is greener. But pick your use case. I had a special need, not covered by Leica, so I made my choice to add a system.

HB latest camera won’t be fully compatible with the earlier lenses. The newer lenses don’t match the apo’s.

I am happy with my decision to step into HB, but I don’t do weddings anymore…

[LocalHero1953]

7 hours ago, helged said:

According to what is said by Leica, the new system will come with a set of newly developed medium format lenses, plus that the body will accept S-mount, L-mount, M-mount and R-mount lenses via adapters (plus lots of other lenses).

I wonder what Leica consider a minimum number of lenses at launch. The SL was launched with only the 24-90SL available IIRC, with the 90-280 following a bit later, followed by the 16-35 and Summilux 50. Then a gap to the Apo-Summicrons.

 Another question that I’m sure others can answer is: which L, M and R lenses have a big enough image circle for a MF sensor?

[o2mpx]

The new price of the X2D II, despite tariffs and other factors, at $800 below the X2D perhaps is an indicator of dji as the parent company how to compete in the marketplace.

Question is with the new lenses, will IQ drop to below Leica SL levels? If not, combined with dji’s experience with smaller electronics, if HB comes out with GFX100RF or Q competitors, Leica will have a complex problem on its hands with 2 of its 3 camera platforms, leaving the M the aging but heritage line.

[Jeff S]

Hugh Brownstone claims the recent XCD lenses outperform the SL APO lenses (see about 21 min mark). I haven’t heard or read from others sharing this opinion.

 

[CptSlevin]

7 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Hugh Brownstone claims the recent XCD lenses outperform the SL APO lenses (see about 21 min mark). I haven’t heard or read from others sharing this opinion.

 

Of course they outperform APO lenses, even Sigma counterparts (for example50mm 1.2) beat APO lenses in ever aspect
APO lenses may be a pinnacle of lens engineering, but its' 2.0 aperture and clinical sharpness in not appealing in portraits

[helged]

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7 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I wonder what Leica consider a minimum number of lenses at launch. The SL was launched with only the 24-90SL available IIRC, with the 90-280 following a bit later, followed by the 16-35 and Summilux 50. Then a gap to the Apo-Summicrons.

 Another question that I’m sure others can answer is: which L, M and R lenses have a big enough image circle for a MF sensor?

The adapted full frame lenses will use a full frame crop of the medium format sensor. A more square format than a 24:35 mm crop is a possibility, but this is more a wishful speculation (from some) than something coming from Leica.

[LocalHero1953]

2 hours ago, CptSlevin said:

Of course they outperform APO lenses, even Sigma counterparts (for example50mm 1.2) beat APO lenses in ever aspect
APO lenses may be a pinnacle of lens engineering, but its' 2.0 aperture and clinical sharpness in not appealing in portraits

Your dispassionate, objective, reasoned, analytical statements command respect.

I've sold all my Leica gear and bought Sony.

[Bernd-B]

DJI is a member of the L-Mount Alliance. Maybe we will see in the future a Hasselblad full frame camera based on the L-Mount ... 😉 That would take our APO-Primes ...

[LocalHero1953]

30 minutes ago, Bernd-B said:

DJI is a member of the L-Mount Alliance. Maybe we will see in the future a Hasselblad full frame camera based on the L-Mount ... 😉 That would take our APO-Primes ...

They only need rebadge the X9 as Hasselblad. (And make it more practical for stills).

As an aside, I am curious how much the X9 has incorporated of Hasselblad's imaging tech and colour (or vice versa).

Edited September 1 by LocalHero1953

[CptSlevin]

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Your dispassionate, objective, reasoned, analytical statements command respect.

I've sold all my Leica gear and bought Sony.

You expect me to give you "dispassionate, objective, reasoned, analytical statements" on just a forum where no one can be objective and mostly be subjective?
Ha ha, give me a break, local hero.

I have like no interest in being objective, what for?
What do I achieve by being objective in such subjective things as color rendering, microcontrast, subject separation?
One person likes magenta shifts, others are disgusted by it and how can there be a middle ground? Some people like onion rings bokeh, others love creamy bokeh, how can you be objective about it?

One thing for sure, Sigma beats Leica on their ground in lens making, because Sigma will always be amazing value for the money, APO lenses nope, they are sold at heavy discount on ebay, why so?

Edited September 1 by CptSlevin

[hoolyproductions]

As when the X2D came out, I got a mild case of GAS with the X2D2. They seem to have solved some of the prior 'deal breakers' for me (AF would not have been good enough for low light music photography, lack of joystick) and I have to admit it is a gorgeous camera. I don't think I will succumb though:

• Increasingly I am favouring my Q3 43 for more casual photography. Perhaps X2D2 would give me even more incredible quality, but not in such a tiny package
• One of my main use cases for the SL cameras is low light music photography. The internet seems to agree that the X2D2 focus is much improved, but I have yet to see anything definitive for low light, plus my APOs give me f2. I haven't seen much information about level of noise at ISO 12500-25000 either.
• I also do a lot of landscape, often in absolutely foul weather. I would still want to keep my SL3 pls 24-90mm for winter landscapes in heavy conditions. I have no doubt X2D is ok for this, as has been reported by many people, but the IP rating on the SL3 gives me full confidence to go out in a wet blizzard or sub arctic conditions.
•  If I understood correctly, if I would like to use the famous Hasselblad colour science, I would need to first process in Phocus and then export TIFF to Lightroom. Life is too short for that IMO. Similarly the HDR has all kinds of limitations in terms of lenses, camera modes etc.
• I would likely have to upgrade my laptop to handle the files without losing my patience

It's a gorgeously designed camera and I would love to try one, but it seems still not for me. I might rent one sometime just to see what the user interface is like etc.

Edited September 1 by hoolyproductions

[CptSlevin]

35 minutes ago, hoolyproductions said:

As when the X2D came out, I got a mild case of GAS with the X2D2. They seem to have solved some of the prior 'deal breakers' for me (AF would not have been good enough for low light music photography, lack of joystick) and I have to admit it is a gorgeous camera. I don't think I will succumb though:

• Increasingly I am favouring my Q3 43 for more casual photography. Perhaps X2D2 would give me even more incredible quality, but not in such a tiny package
• One of my main use cases for the SL cameras is low light music photography. The internet seems to agree that the X2D2 focus is much improved, but I have yet to see anything definitive for low light, plus my APOs give me f2. I haven't seen much information about level of noise at ISO 12500-25000 either.
• I also do a lot of landscape, often in absolutely foul weather. I would still want to keep my SL3 pls 24-90mm for winter landscapes in heavy conditions. I have no doubt X2D is ok for this, as has been reported by many people, but the IP rating on the SL3 gives me full confidence to go out in a wet blizzard or sub arctic conditions.
•  If I understood correctly, if I would like to use the famous Hasselblad colour science, I would need to first process in Phocus and then export TIFF to Lightroom. Life is too short for that IMO. Similarly the HDR has all kinds of limitations in terms of lenses, camera modes etc.
• I would likely have to upgrade my laptop to handle the files without losing my patience

It's a gorgeously designed camera and I would love to try one, but it seems still not for me. I might rent one sometime just to see what the user interface is like etc.

Size wise X2DII VS Q3 almost identical

Weight wise different story.

Price wise q3 / q3 43 lost a lot of market value this year.

X2D II for another 5 year cycle will remain almost the same

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Edited September 1 by CptSlevin

[jaapv]

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[helged]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

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Would be a technological breakthrough to embed the Hassy-sensor into the Q-body...

[SrMi]

5 hours ago, CptSlevin said:

Size wise X2DII VS Q3 almost identical

 

That image does not accurately represent the size difference. Putting my Q3 near X2D, the size difference is obvious:

130 x 80.3 x 92.6 mm (with lens) vs. 148.5 x 106 x 75 mm (no lens).

[CptSlevin]

27 minutes ago, SrMi said:

That image does not accurately represent the size difference. Putting my Q3 near X2D, the size difference is obvious:

130 x 80.3 x 92.6 mm (with lens) vs. 148.5 x 106 x 75 mm (no lens).

Photo better represents the difference than figures and jaapv's 3d modeling.
I saw X2D II in hand of a friend already and Q3 / Q3 43 in my hand.

All I can say that Q3 no longer looks to me as compact camera at all

[SrMi]

20 minutes ago, CptSlevin said:

Photo better represents the difference than figures and jaapv's 3d modeling.
I saw X2D II in hand of a friend already and Q3 / Q3 43 in my hand.

All I can say that Q3 no longer looks to me as compact camera at all

I doubt that a photo can better represent the difference than holding the cameras in hand. Q3 is still much more compact, even when using the 28p lens. Dimensional difference is also a good indicator of the difference.

Edited September 1 by SrMi

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[CptSlevin]

3 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I doubt that a photo can better represent the difference than holding the cameras in hand. Q3 is still much more compact, even when using the 28p lens. Dimensional difference is also a good indicator of the difference.

Yes, but

One is integrated FF lens system and other is MF interchangeable lens system.
X2D II is almost identical to Q3 with added grip handle.

So, kudos to Hasselblad, they are stepping on Leicas' toes and will definitely drive some of Leica users to HB due to innovations.
Leica is stagnating, SL series is abandoned, SL3 and SL3S are highly undercooked gem cameras, Q series is like selling too well, so they don't want to innovate, M is just M, M11-V will maybe interesting, but priced at around 10k$

[tom0511]

As a user of x2d and SL3....I am struggeling. I really see a difference how "perfect" the images come out of the Hassy in regards of color and exposure and overall look.

Still there is a pretty long blackout, I can't use long lenses and the body is a little bigger, I also prefer slightly the SL3 viewfinder. The SL3 feels faster overall.

I believe the Leica SL lenses are better, but the x2d lenses seem fine as well, the Hassy sensor (or profile or combination) just shines.

I don't know how much faster the x2dii feels.

I wish Leica had a color science like the Hassy.