M11-P or SL3-S for use with manual M-mount lenses?

[Pangur Ban]

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I'm going to treat myself to a new Leica to accompany me on my retirement adventures, I'm planning to travel and do interesting things when I'm no longer constrained by contractual obligations. I have five Leica currently - a IIIa, an M2, M3, MP plus an M8, all of which I've owned and used for many years so I am indeed fortunate. My primary digital camera is a Sony A7ii, which I've had for ten years or more, so I think it's time for an upgrade. I am very tempted by the M11p Safari as I like the idea of a green camera, I know about the SL2-S Reporter, but that's not available new. I have a splendid set of M-mount lenses, from vintage to modern, and I'm not particularly interested in the L-mount autofocus lenses (excellent as they no doubt are), so the primary use of the new body is as a digital back to old lenses. I'm also fortunate in being able to afford either option, so the price difference is not material. What pro's and con's should I consider, for a camera I intend to use to the max for the next twenty years or more? M11P or SL3-S?  (question also posted in the L-mount forum)

 

Edited August 7 by Pangur Ban

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[T25UFO]

The only reason not to go with the M11P is the inability to focus a rangefinder, but that is that does not seem to be a problem for you.  Buy the Safari and enjoy.

[didier]

I am with @T25UFO on your question, all the more as you already have a set of M-Lenses.

I’ve had a safari in my hands today, and I must say it looks gorgeous. I could live with it, even with a black lens on it  

Have fun and a very long use of your new Body ! 

[maxinmanhattan]

39 minutes ago, Pangur Ban said:

I'm going to treat myself to a new Leica to accompany me on my retirement adventures, I'm planning to travel and do interesting things when I'm no longer constrained by contractual obligations. I have five Leica currently - a IIIa, an M2, M3, MP plus an M8, all of which I've owned and used for many years so I am indeed fortunate. My primary digital camera is a Sony A7ii, which I've had for ten years or more, so I think it's time for an upgrade. I am very tempted by the M11p Safari as I like the idea of a green camera, I know about the SL2-S Reporter, but that's not available new. I have a splendid set of M-mount lenses, from vintage to modern, and I'm not particularly interested in the L-mount autofocus lenses (excellent as they no doubt are), so the primary use of the new body is as a digital back to old lenses. I'm also fortunate in being able to afford either option, so the price difference is not material. What pro's and con's should I consider, for a camera I intend to use to the max for the next twenty years or more? M11P or SL3-S?  (question also posted in the L-mount forum)

 

I have some older lens, such as SUMMILUX-m 35mm before floating element version, so it may have focus shifting between 2.8 and 5.6 apertures (never confirmed by myself thought); and an apo-summicron-m 90mm, which is kind of hard to focus on M body.  so I bought a SL2 with 35mm kit.  I can enjoy the fast auto-focusing of the Summicron-sl 35mm, which is very liberating; and continue to use all my M lenses, especially these with focus shifting issue or tele-lens.  so maybe a SL3 is a better option for you, lighter than SL2, same sensor as that of M11-P, and have the best of the two worlds.  just for your reference.

Edited August 7 by maxinmanhattan

[jaapv]

5 hours ago, Pangur Ban said:

What pro's and con's should I consider, for a camera I intend to use to the max for the next twenty years or more?

Aa I said in the thread that you started in the SL forum, consider your eyesight in ten or twenty years time. It could be fine, but there is a considerable risk that focusing a rangefinder will be quite hard and the present day Visoflex is already a generation or two behind the SL3S. 

[jakontil]

What you enjoy shooting with? M11p safari seems the sexiest digital to date.. but if u wanna play safe with focusing, seems like sl3 

[Kiwimac]

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As others have said, the choice here comes down to whether you are comfortable with your eyesight (and since you’re retiring, I politely mention that your sight might not remain as it is today but if you’re comfortable wearing glasses then no problem as you’ll just change the glasses if need be) and to which camera you prefer in the hand. 
 

There have been issues with the M11 series which seem mainly to have been overcome by firmware iteration. 
 

For me, it’s the M. They’re not the best thing for everyone or for some genres but they suit me. 
 

I have pretty reasonable eyesight and don’t typically experience issues focusing 28-35-50 which is what I use. 
 

Anything longer than 50 gets too tricky especially at faster apertures for me to use reliably. If I wanted to use the 75/90/135/Noctilux lenses, I’d buy an SL with an M adapter. 

[Archiver]

As a long term owner of a M9 and recent owner of a SL2-S, I am a little mixed on this.

M mount lenses perform to varying degrees of quality on the SL bodies, depending on the lenses. If the M8 is your only digital M, you don't yet know the benefits of using your M glass on a full frame M body; M lenses on a Sony body can be a very mixed bag, ranging from substandard to excellent. Some lenses like the Zeiss Biogon 21mm f2.8 are awesomely sharp and contrasty on the M9, but disappointingly soft on the SL2S. You'll get the most optimal performance from the widest range of M lenses with a new M body.

Having said that, there are a number of M lenses, particularly more recent models, which work well on SL bodies as they are optimized for digital sensors. And the SL bodies make accurate focusing a dream. I mentioned in another post that after a few months of using the SL2S, I find myself reaching for the back button to punch in focus on the M9, which it clearly doesn't do, but seems to be desirable because I automatically do it.

Size and weight are other considerations. The SL camera EVF protrudes a fair bit from the back, unlike the M bodies which are flat. The EVF can catch on clothes, and even tear off if you aren't careful. The SL bodies don't brass nicely like M bodies, they chip to reveal dark grey underneath with disturbing ease. I've had to revise the way I carry my cameras, and am considering a leather half case to protect my SL2S.

As far as longevity goes, my M9 is 15 years old with over 75,000 shutter actuations and it still doing fine. In recent years, it has started to freeze every now and then, requiring a battery-pull to reset, but apart from that, it's excellent. Kristian Dowling shot extensively with the original SL for well over five years, putting it through things that most retired enthusiasts wouldn't, so I'd say the SL cameras are robust. The SL cameras are highly weather resistant, although this is with sealed AF lenses, not adapted M lenses.

I'd say that if you deeply enjoy rangefinder shooting and can imagine yourself doing so for another 10-20 years, get the Safari. If you want perfect focus, especially with longer/faster lenses, get a SL.

[chris7273]

Image stabilization IBIS can be very useful

M11 is not “slow speed” friendly and won’t forgive any user error. 
 

why not try a second hand SL2-S and then decide to go (or not) with a new SL3 ? 

[costa43]

You are already familiar with the experience of shooting an M and the experience of using a mirrorless camera, albeit a Sony. Which do you you prefer?

I wouldn’t base the decision on the future of your eyesight. My suggestion would be to go with what you makes you tingle more today. If eyesight deteriorates then you have plenty of equity in your kit to swap out to a mirrorless option or even just use a Visoflex. 
 

[M8X2]

I would make my decision also dependent on the use case. Generally speaking, size, weight and familiarity of use speak for another M, while potentially having the ability to photograph a crocodile with a 280 mm instead of 28 mm might have some appeal, too.

[Minigill]

I recently viewed as a 2nd camera whilst I am waiting for replacement for my M11 from Leica, tried the SL2S, for me, and only my thoughts on my use, using 35 APO M produced a more sterile look on the SL.

Having gone round the houses on what to do, I got 10-R and LOVE it.  The biggest deciding factor what not the look in photos, the weight difference which is susbstantial, the SL has its advantages, there was only one thing that made the decision, I could not get away from the RF experience.  I felt excited to take the 10-R out, loves the results, so RF won !

[Pangur Ban]

Thank you for all the responses. I popped into Leica Mayfair today and had a look at the SL3-S (I’d already seen the M11-p Safari). It was certainly bigger and heavier than expected, and I understand the SL2-S is bigger. I don’t fancy carrying that big a camera around, so it will be the M11-P. Now, do I go green or my usual chrome? 
 

[Kwesi]

31 minutes ago, Pangur Ban said:

Thank you for all the responses. I popped into Leica Mayfair today and had a look at the SL3-S (I’d already seen the M11-p Safari). It was certainly bigger and heavier than expected, and I understand the SL2-S is bigger. I don’t fancy carrying that big a camera around, so it will be the M11-P. Now, do I go green or my usual chrome? 
 

neither green nor chrome,

track down a glossy black paint one - a nice one off special edition for a retirement gift for yourself.

 

Mind you I am a die hard chrome body M user myself, currently shooting with the chrome M11 since launch.

[Elliot Harper]

28 minutes ago, Pangur Ban said:

Thank you for all the responses. I popped into Leica Mayfair today and had a look at the SL3-S (I’d already seen the M11-p Safari). It was certainly bigger and heavier than expected, and I understand the SL2-S is bigger. I don’t fancy carrying that big a camera around, so it will be the M11-P. Now, do I go green or my usual chrome? 
 

Green!

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Eoin]

I'm happy to read you've made your choice with regard to the Camera system, I shoot M, SL & Q and by far the most enjoyment from my photography is achieved with the M System. That's just a personal preference and should not take away from the stellar SL2/SL2-S with its system lenses or the fantastic no futz Q2.

Chrome or Safari colour way, were I in your shoes... Chrome. Harder wearing, black and chrome lenses look equally nice on it, same heft given both have brass top plates and the black is aluminium except for the black paint variant (100 year edition). But I also like the almost shark skin like texture of the M11-M.

Best of luck with your final decision and congratulations on your upcoming retirement, a beautiful present to yourself regardless, enjoy!.

 

[jgeenen]

vor 33 Minuten schrieb Elliot Harper:

Green

Chrome!

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[Kwesi]

10 minutes ago, jgeenen said:

Chrome!

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

48 minutes ago, Elliot Harper said:

Green!

 

I love the dueling Teddy Bears!!

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[M8X2]

Green!

[pgh]

If it's not too late and you're not completely glued to buying something brand new out of the shop I would highly suggest an M10 (any version). The M glass is made for it, like the M11, but it is more forgiving due to the 24 mp. That may not matter for everyone, but if you're not regularly printing larger than A2, and most people don't, you'll very likely get more sharp images out of it than an m11 which is fairly punishing handholding anything slower than 1/180 or even 1/250 unless you only shoot at quite wide focal lengths. Even a 35mm lens can show camera shake at 1/125 with some regularity - and I have fairly steady hands. The M10R sits in between the two, could be a good compromise. 

The M11 is too much resolution for a camera to regularly handhold and freely operate without IBIS - so much so that it impacts the shooting experience in a way that is different than any M prior to it. If you don't mind that, then yea go for it.