justj Posted June 5 Share #161 Posted June 5 Advertisement (gone after registration) IBIS, just like a seat belt, has its supporters and skeptics. One could be the difference between life and death in a high-speed accident, while the other ensures your photos remain sharp when shooting with a slow shutter speed. Both serve to stabilize—but in entirely different ways. Will I need an IBIS M camera? Maybe not. Will I want one? Hell, yeah! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 5 Posted June 5 Hi justj, Take a look here IBIS, lack of, Feedback. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
TeleElmar135mm Posted June 5 Share #162 Posted June 5 It's quiet easy: If you have a static object then IBIS is useful but when the object is moving, then this object determines the exposure time for a sharp image and cannot be extended (at will) using IBIS. So the M is more for stret photography so for me, IBIS is not my first whish. More useful for the M woud be a quicker read ot for the electronic shutter. But that is only ma opinion. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raizans Posted June 5 Share #163 Posted June 5 Rangefinders are great “general photography” cameras. It’s not all f/8 at 1/1000. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5 Share #164 Posted June 5 If Leica add IBIS and it can be disabled, and the body doesn't increase too much in size, then I don't see what the issue is. The argument that the spirit of the simple M camera will be diluted is patently fallacious as this has already happened. We now have 60MP digital sensors, exposure metering, wifi, bluetooth, LCD, cropping, perspective control, in camera storage, USB charging, etc etc.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted June 6 Share #165 Posted June 6 16 hours ago, FarbSpieler said: The analogy misses the point entirely. This isn’t a debate about whether IBIS is useful in general. Of course it is. It’s standard in almost every modern camera, and for good reason. But the Leica M is not every modern camera. It’s about simplicity distilled to its purest, direct control, and staying out of the photographer’s way. So no, it’s not about resisting progress for the sake of it. It’s about preserving a tool that exists precisely because it doesn’t follow the crowd. I do not see how IBIS can be in photographer's way. It is similar to adding a faster processor that helps the camera start up faster. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RQ44 Posted June 6 Share #166 Posted June 6 39 minutes ago, SrMi said: I do not see how IBIS can be in photographer's way. It is similar to adding a faster processor that helps the camera start up faster. Agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgh Posted June 6 Share #167 Posted June 6 Advertisement (gone after registration) 17 hours ago, FarbSpieler said: The analogy misses the point entirely. This isn’t a debate about whether IBIS is useful in general. Of course it is. It’s standard in almost every modern camera, and for good reason. But the Leica M is not every modern camera. It’s about simplicity distilled to its purest, direct control, and staying out of the photographer’s way. So no, it’s not about resisting progress for the sake of it. It’s about preserving a tool that exists precisely because it doesn’t follow the crowd. No, the quote is appropriate precisely because Leica stuck an advanced sensor that needs IBIS in the M. (Followed the crowd in the megapixel race). If the tool is to be handholdable, usable, practical etc IBIS would get it closer to being all of those things with a sensor that high resolving. If they wanted to preserve the purity of the tool or whatever it wouldn’t have WiFi, 60 mp, would have kept the baseplate etc etc. You’re just drawing your own very arbitrary purity line. If Leica kept the sensor at 24 mp, maybe it would make sense to not implement IBIS. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 6 Share #168 Posted June 6 20 hours ago, FarbSpieler said: Leica M is not every modern camera. It’s about simplicity distilled to its purest, direct control, and staying out of the photographer’s way. Ah purity! Phantasm or reality? I don't recall when Leica began to loose that. With the M5 perhaps? Or earlier when Leica stopped making Leicameters with a selenium cell. Tough experience! We had to use a battery 😱 for new Leicameters. Was the time of the M4 if i remember well. Seventies... End of purity? Just kidding 😎 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos cruz Posted June 6 Share #169 Posted June 6 4 hours ago, SrMi said: I do not see how IBIS can be in photographer's way. It is similar to adding a faster processor that helps the camera start up faster. I can, sometimes on purpose you want to add camera shake, panning/following moving target, ibis will fight against your intentional movement making total mess. Sometimes you want to take long exposures with flash to freeze the moment. Leica will probably give in at some point, but I believe that for now there’s not enough space inside between sensor, lens mount and rear screen. That would mean we’re back to m240 fat leica dimensions or m12d could be the first with ibis. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 6 Share #170 Posted June 6 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Carlos cruz said: [...] sometimes on purpose you want to add camera shake, panning/following moving target, ibis will fight against your intentional movement making total mess [...] Suffice it to disable IBIS then. No rocket science. With and without IBIS below. Sony a7r2 mod + Elmar-C 90/4 @ 1/100s. Unsure where the problem is honestly... https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/288286-m-lens-to-nikon-z-mount-adapter/?do=findComment&comment=4848642 Edited June 6 by lct Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S Maclean Posted June 6 Share #171 Posted June 6 20 minutes ago, Carlos cruz said: I can, sometimes on purpose you want to add camera shake, panning/following moving target, ibis will fight against your intentional movement making total mess. Sometimes you want to take long exposures with flash to freeze the moment. Leica will probably give in at some point, but I believe that for now there’s not enough space inside between sensor, lens mount and rear screen. That would mean we’re back to m240 fat leica dimensions or m12d could be the first with ibis. Most cameras with IBIS have a disable function, that being said, as I was researching this exact issue for the X2d and the SL the recomendation seemed to bot bither as modern systems don’t have that effect. I still disable when using the tripod. Old habits and all that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos cruz Posted June 6 Share #172 Posted June 6 7 minutes ago, lct said: Suffice it to disable IBIS then. Not a rocket science. With and without IBIS below. Sony a7r2 mod + Elmar-M 90/4 @ 1/100s. Unsure where the problem is honestly... https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/288286-m-lens-to-nikon-z-mount-adapter/?do=findComment&comment=4848642 1 minute ago, S Maclean said: Most cameras with IBIS have a disable function, that being said, as I was researching this exact issue for the X2d and the SL the recomendation seemed to bot bither as modern systems don’t have that effect. I still disable when using the tripod. Old habits and all that. Luckily ibis or no ibis is not an m camera problem, for now. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S Maclean Posted June 6 Share #173 Posted June 6 While I wouldn’t discard my M for the absence of IBIS, as I purchased it fully accepting its current functionality, IBIS wouldn’t be detrimental either. I must admit that when I use the SL3 with M lenses, shots in low light or with slower shutter speeds tend to be significantly cleaner. This difference isn’t immediately noticeable when I simply use the M and review the images. With exceptions, I don’t necessarily prioritize micro-sharp focus, especially in street and candid photography where the moment and composition are more crucial. However, when I take the same shot, there’s often a noticeable difference. Is it better or worse? It depends on the specific shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tseg Posted June 6 Share #174 Posted June 6 I’ll be using my slide rule to determine whether I can afford this new shake-proof camera obscura. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted June 6 Share #175 Posted June 6 5 hours ago, SrMi said: I do not see how IBIS can be in photographer's way. It is similar to adding a faster processor that helps the camera start up faster. Really? Walk me through how adding multiple cubic cms of magnets and levers (see first link in post 133 - SL IBIS mechanism) is equivalent to swapping one chip for another. Weight gets in my way. Removal of other features/functionalities to make room for IBIS (if needed) gets in my way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarbSpieler Posted June 6 Share #176 Posted June 6 6 hours ago, SrMi said: I do not see how IBIS can be in photographer's way. It is similar to adding a faster processor that helps the camera start up faster. A faster processor doesn’t alter how you shoot. IBIS does. It changes how the camera responds to movement. IBIS isn’t just “invisible help”—it adds weight, bulk, complexity, and another layer between you and the image. The M is all about simplicity, directness and removing such layers, not adding them. IBIS goes against what M is, full stop. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6 Share #177 Posted June 6 31 minutes ago, FarbSpieler said: ... The M is all about simplicity, directness and removing such layers, not adding them. IBIS goes against what M is, full stop. The M is all about a high performance compact camera and lenses, with a great user experience that takes great photos. IBIS will help, full stop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted June 6 Share #178 Posted June 6 1 hour ago, adan said: Really? Walk me through how adding multiple cubic cms of magnets and levers (see first link in post 133 - SL IBIS mechanism) is equivalent to swapping one chip for another. Weight gets in my way. Removal of other features/functionalities to make room for IBIS (if needed) gets in my way. It is not a given that adding IBIS must add weight or size and SL IBIS is not a indicator how it has to be implemented. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos cruz Posted June 6 Share #179 Posted June 6 It’s really impressive how many pages of polarised opinions we can produce on technology that hasn’t been introduced into Ms. If only internet existed when they were designing m5, I’d love to be part of one of the armies. Maybe the whole point should be about how much resolution we actually need from FF camera? I haven’t done any math, but doesn’t m11 already out-resolves printing capabilities? How many of you actually print your works? What sizes? If you don’t print what screen size do you need to watch your photos at 100% pixel to pixel? Or is it just frustration of a person who pixel peeps at background bits thinking that his photos would be better if only his camera had some more advanced technology. I really think we should focus on important stuff- what do you think about dreaded brightness sensor Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/421568-ibis-lack-of-feedback/?do=findComment&comment=5813571'>More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6 Share #180 Posted June 6 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Carlos cruz said: ... Maybe the whole point should be about how much resolution we actually need from FF camera? I haven’t done any math, but doesn’t m11 already out-resolves printing capabilities? .... I guess you don't crop any of your photos? We don't all use cameras in the same way. Edited June 6 by Corius Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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