pippy Posted May 10 Share #41 Posted May 10 Advertisement (gone after registration) 11 hours ago, ronaldc said: M11 is as simple as it goes for a digital M... I think you will find that the M Edition 60 and M-D Typ-262 are as simple as it gets for a digital M. Philip. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 10 Posted May 10 Hi pippy, Take a look here M Classic?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted May 11 Share #42 Posted May 11 Using both M11 and M240 bdies, i don't find the M11 more complex, but the M240 is so sluggish in LV mode that i only use the RF mode with it, which can give a wrong feeling of simplicity. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted May 11 Share #43 Posted May 11 2 hours ago, Biotar said: Does it display the exposure time in the viewfinder? - That would surprise me. The stupid symbols don't tell you that your time is longer than 1/60 Classic M Lol Just do like me, Set AUTO iso to a minimum shutter to 1/250. set and forget. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 11 Author Share #44 Posted May 11 2 hours ago, Kwesi said: Leica will always look back as it forges forward. But, it has to forge forward to stay viable in a world dominated by technological innovations in all industries. What makes Leica M so special is that it is very attached to its roots. Hence my suggestion that a “Classic” digital M, based say on the MP, is not a silly idea at all. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted May 11 Share #45 Posted May 11 7 hours ago, SrMi said: Ming does not investigate the results obtained after downsizing a high-resolution image. Downsizing an image should have the same effect as shooting with a lower-resolution sensor, both for camera shake and noise per pixel. Indeed, he must have missed that! 🙈 You should send him an email and tell him - and don't forget to add some pictures that show how it's done properly 👍 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotar Posted May 11 Share #46 Posted May 11 (edited) vor 8 Stunden schrieb lct: We don't seem to have the same camera. Those symbols work well in both my M11's OVF and EVF, including for shutter speeds as low as 1/4s. vor 7 Stunden schrieb Photoworks: Classic M Lol Just do like me, Set AUTO iso to a minimum shutter to 1/250. set and forget. An M is not an M if you can't operate it properly manually. It was still okay in the past if I just had to look at the wheel to read the exposure time. But if I also have to put on and take off glasses, or even illuminate the wheel with my cell phone in the dark, then the M stays in the cupboard. My Zeiss ZM and my Bessa (Epson R-D) show the times in the viewfinder. Why can't Leica do it? Since multi-spot metering no longer exists, I work with manual metering. Leica-M is the only camera that doesn't properly support this - how absurd, isn't it? Edited May 11 by Biotar 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 11 Author Share #47 Posted May 11 Advertisement (gone after registration) 4 minutes ago, Biotar said: even illuminate the wheel with my cell phone in the dark You’re taking a picture in the dark? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotar Posted May 11 Share #48 Posted May 11 (edited) real working tool vs fashionable accessory Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I feel sorry for the M at Leica - the SL is the only camera that can really be taken seriously Edited May 11 by Biotar 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I feel sorry for the M at Leica - the SL is the only camera that can really be taken seriously ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/421128-m-classic/?do=findComment&comment=5800120'>More sharing options...
lct Posted May 11 Share #49 Posted May 11 (edited) 3 hours ago, Biotar said: An M is not an M if you can't operate it properly manually. It was still okay in the past if I just had to look at the wheel to read the exposure time. You can read the shutter speeds on the shutter speed dial, as always, but also in both the OVF and EFV. I don't see your problem but something escapes me perhaps... Edited May 11 by lct 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted May 11 Share #50 Posted May 11 When I reminisce on my life long love of all things related to photography such as hand held meters, film stock, chemical fumes, work flows measured in hours or days before I even knew I got an image, let alone worthy of a print … I for one am very appreciative of the advances in the technology inherent in modern digital photography. I can also be a bit of a Luddite in other aspects of my life, where technology has overtaken and over complicated something that was easier before. The beauty of the M system for me is that it has not fundamentally changed the way I like to shoot, there are features I use every day, others I use sparingly and some I’ve never used. The camera can be as complicated or as simple as I choose. I don’t think Leica can ever fully satisfy everyone’s individual expectations with what should or shouldn’t be, but as a camera company I must applaud them for trying. The M has progressed and regressed to varying degrees of subjective opinions, but one thing for sure I don’t see any other company pandering to its customers desires and releasing D and M variants and integration with the SL system. Where will it go in the future, who knows. From my perspective the only limiting factors are my own abilities to see the “image” and ignore the “what if” chatter in my head. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotar Posted May 11 Share #51 Posted May 11 It doesn't make sense to take the subject away from the eye in order to check the set time. - and certainly not to have to take off your glasses to do so. This destroys the relationship with the scene. - the great advantage of the RF vor 27 Minuten schrieb lct: You can read the shutter speeds on the shutter speed dial, as always, but also in both the OVF and EFV. I don't see your problem but something escapes me perhaps... ... in manual metering no M shows a time in the viewfinder (except the M5 as far as I know). Am I wrong about this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotar Posted May 11 Share #52 Posted May 11 vor 6 Minuten schrieb Eoin: I don’t think Leica can ever fully satisfy everyone’s individual expectations with what should or shouldn’t be, but as a camera company I must applaud them for trying. The M has progressed and regressed to varying degrees of subjective opinions, but one thing for sure I don’t see any other company pandering to its customers desires and releasing D and M variants and integration with the SL system. Yes, the SL is currently the better M because it doesn't restrict me as a photographer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwimac Posted May 11 Share #53 Posted May 11 I think the D iteration is as close as they’re likely to go, myself. Personally I’d like to have seen Fuji style film simulations in that platform as I think it would have made it more rather than less. Especially if they put the tiny screen on the back mimicking the holders we used to slip torn off film box ends in to remind us what was loaded. I think Fuji did that on the last X-Pro. I’ve been in and out of the M system for almost three decades. It’s still my favourite system overall as long as you’re not trying to use it for things it’s not well suited to. That said, I took perfectly acceptable images of motor racing on Hasselblad X2D recently, a camera few would suggest is a good sports camera! This is probably creating a hostage to fortune but…with the Safari iteration on its way to my lair, I’m planning on staying put this time. I did debate between that and the 11-D but decided money was better spent on lenses than having two bodies. If I win Lotto, I’ll get one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgh Posted May 11 Share #54 Posted May 11 1 hour ago, Biotar said: It doesn't make sense to take the subject away from the eye in order to check the set time. - and certainly not to have to take off your glasses to do so. This destroys the relationship with the scene. - the great advantage of the RF ... in manual metering no M shows a time in the viewfinder (except the M5 as far as I know). Am I wrong about this? It sounds like you’ve got some incredibly unique and particular limitations to making pictures. We all choose what we think the problem is, I guess. For me, I’ve never had an issue with aperture priority and seeing the shutter speed in my viewfinder. I’ve never thought to have this be a thing that limits me - I am happy to work with the set up as it is, because it does what it needs to do. In the end these things are mostly choices and reflections of attitude. Glad you found the SL to meet the needs. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted May 11 Share #55 Posted May 11 2 hours ago, Eoin said: When I reminisce on my life long love of all things related to photography I remember with great fondness when I got my first Canon A1 in 1980 and loved all the information shown electronically in the viewfinder. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted May 11 Share #56 Posted May 11 6 hours ago, Biotar said: Since multi-spot metering no longer exists, I work with manual metering. Leica-M is the only camera that doesn't properly support this - how absurd, isn't it? Classic M cameras have a light meter? Where was the SPOT? To multi-spot sounds too complicated, and take 3-4 readings, and your subject is gone. When I was shooting film at night with the M3, I never used the light meter or spot, just T-Max 400 and set time and f-stop by experience, it mostly worked out just fine. On digital. I can take one shot in the dark, see if it is too dark, and adjust for the highlights. I do have a screen that illuminates and gives me the info needed. But for my habit at night, I dial a -1 stop correction to begin with. But I assumed that classic M should be a minimalist camera, just like an M6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted May 11 Share #57 Posted May 11 2 hours ago, Biotar said: ... in manual metering no M shows a time in the viewfinder (except the M5 as far as I know). Am I wrong about this? Is it illuminated in the dark? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 11 Share #58 Posted May 11 2 hours ago, Biotar said: [...] in manual metering no M shows a time in the viewfinder (except the M5 as far as I know) In manual metering we know the shutter speed since we set it manually. I don't recall any of my Ms doing otherwise since the M3 but i have no experience with the M5 admittedly. Too large a camera for me. YMMV Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted May 11 Share #59 Posted May 11 7 hours ago, IkarusJohn said: You’re taking a picture in the dark? This happens all the time if one is photographing say a stage show, or is photographing from a dark area to a light one at night. I've wished Leica showed the shutter speed in the M finder since I started with an M6 in 1993. Or a way of illuminating the shutter speeds on the top dial. I would also like a shutter speed dial that doesn't have A, and doesn't make round trips (i.e. has a stop at 1/4000). 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted May 11 Share #60 Posted May 11 3 hours ago, Biotar said: Yes, the SL is currently the better M because it doesn't restrict me as a photographer. Sorry, but this is the silliest thing I've read in a while. The restriction is always the photographer, not the camera. You may need/want a different camera for something specific you want to achieve, which is fine and valid. This is not a restriction, but rather a choice. Personally, I choose the M because it doesn't restrict me in the way an SL would. For a few specific scenarios I would choose my D850. See how that works? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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