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9 hours ago, Photoworks said:

I wonder if EFCS would ever come to Leica, Leica camera stands for image quality, and EFCS can introduce artifacts.

Anyway, I reported a number of bugs one year ago, and I see they have not been addressed 🤷‍♂️

Negative effects from EFCS generally only become visible at very high shutter speeds. Almost every other camera brand knows this and implements EFCS in a way that it automatically cuts out above 1/1000-1/2000 (depending on the brand). At this point shutter shock isn’t an issue. It’s an issue on the SOny A7CR as it lacks a second shutter curtain so ONLY has EFCS. Other cameras aren’t an issue.

If Leica really cared about *image quality* they’d realise that some of their lenses suffer from around 150mm due to shutter shock. It’s not even hard to test for. Currently with anything over 150mm generally the Panasonic S1Rii gives better image quality than the SL3.

Gordon

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  • 1 month later...
Posted (edited)

I just (finally) updated. When starting the process, the camera indicated that currently installed version was 2.0.1. And the new one is 3.1.1. So my immediate assumption was that I had missed some, and felt embarrassed that I'd missed so many. But when searching around, it seems like the 2.0.1 was the last one before we got 3.1.1? 

That's a big jump in numbering. I know that for us users these numbers don't mean that much and they often go up a bit erratically. But such a gap? Were so many internal versions necessary to come up with this unimpressive list of updates? And what major new feature triggered the jump from 2.x to 3.x? The automatic copying over of profiles? (btw, this is a very welcome feature and worked well).

Or are there 'under the hood' improvements that may not be published but still happened? What are experiences from people having used this for a while? Any change in performance (AF speed, AF accuracy, shorter black-outs, faster buffer cleaning, anything, etc, etc.)?

Edited by wjdrijfhout
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My concern overall is that with the SL2 & SL2-S camera's Leica (I had both) was in sync with Panasonic's equivalents using the same sensor and therefore almost certainly collaborated on key features like AF performance. Initially when the SL2-S was launched the overall AF performance exceeded that of the SL2 by some margin but over time the gap narrowed to be largely immaterial. Low light performance of course was a completely different matter.

However, we now find ourselves in a different world this time round with SL3 & SL3-S with the launch of Panasonic's equivalents (the SR1 II and the S1 II) in that the SL3 is no longer sharing the same sensor as the SR1 II. Some 6 months on from the launch of the SL3-S and the SL3 has not narrowed the gap in terms of AF performance, whilst the SL3-S and S1 II appear to be using the same sensor.

I have a very good relationship with Leica direct but they are rather silent on the future of the SL3 in terms of material firmware updates. I think this is because they are now 'on there own' and don't have the resources to actually bring the camera up to the levels of the SL3-S's AF performance, which is a great shame. I fear that the SL3 is now parked at the end of an AF cul-de-sac (amongst other things like Multi Shot Mode handheld) whilst the SL3-S and S1 II continue on the main road of AF and material firmware development!!

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3 hours ago, SJH said:

My concern overall is that with the SL2 & SL2-S camera's Leica (I had both) was in sync with Panasonic's equivalents using the same sensor and therefore almost certainly collaborated on key features like AF performance. Initially when the SL2-S was launched the overall AF performance exceeded that of the SL2 by some margin but over time the gap narrowed to be largely immaterial. Low light performance of course was a completely different matter.

However, we now find ourselves in a different world this time round with SL3 & SL3-S with the launch of Panasonic's equivalents (the SR1 II and the S1 II) in that the SL3 is no longer sharing the same sensor as the SR1 II. Some 6 months on from the launch of the SL3-S and the SL3 has not narrowed the gap in terms of AF performance, whilst the SL3-S and S1 II appear to be using the same sensor.

I have a very good relationship with Leica direct but they are rather silent on the future of the SL3 in terms of material firmware updates. I think this is because they are now 'on there own' and don't have the resources to actually bring the camera up to the levels of the SL3-S's AF performance, which is a great shame. I fear that the SL3 is now parked at the end of an AF cul-de-sac (amongst other things like Multi Shot Mode handheld) whilst the SL3-S and S1 II continue on the main road of AF and material firmware development!!

The SL3 has fewer PDAF sensors and slower readout time than the SL3-S. You’re not going to get equal performance from the two cameras. 

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Leica may be parked but from what I have discovered, Panasonic also has a long way to go. They have by far the worst tech support I have ever used.    It’s nearly impossible to navigate to where you can open a ticket and then there will not be any response. They bury the phone link behind chat bots which no nothing and are a waste of time. Currently Adobe has a huge problem with the high resolution mode from the S1RII in that about 50 percent of the files will not open instead giving an error “file appears to the unsupported or damaged”.  It’s a known issue and has been pointed out by myself and others on various forums. I have open tickets with both Adobe and Panasonic on the issue but have not received any info as to when a fix to Camera raw will happen. Also Panasonic appears to be much more focused on the video aspects of the S1RII. As for Leica and future firmware updates? It’s obviously they did not consider longer glass with the SL3 and utilize EFCS. Odds are it can’t be added via firmware.  But their lack of a focus bracketing option is what mystifies me. Standard in any other mirrorless camera by any company and should be possible to add via firmware. 
 

Paul

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On 7/7/2025 at 6:00 PM, wjdrijfhout said:

I just (finally) updated. When starting the process, the camera indicated that currently installed version was 2.0.1. And the new one is 3.1.1. So my immediate assumption was that I had missed some, and felt embarrassed that I'd missed so many. But when searching around, it seems like the 2.0.1 was the last one before we got 3.1.1? 

That's a big jump in numbering. I know that for us users these numbers don't mean that much and they often go up a bit erratically. But such a gap? Were so many internal versions necessary to come up with this unimpressive list of updates? And what major new feature triggered the jump from 2.x to 3.x? The automatic copying over of profiles? (btw, this is a very welcome feature and worked well).

Or are there 'under the hood' improvements that may not be published but still happened? What are experiences from people having used this for a while? Any change in performance (AF speed, AF accuracy, shorter black-outs, faster buffer cleaning, anything, etc, etc.)?

A Rose by any other name...

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On 7/8/2025 at 3:39 PM, LD_50 said:

The SL3 has fewer PDAF sensors and slower readout time than the SL3-S. You’re not going to get equal performance from the two cameras. 

Of course but the gap is far wider than it needs to be compared to where the SL2 & SL2-S ended up. There have been no material upgrades to the SL3’s AF etc so given the silence from Leica I can only assume it’s not going to get any better whilst the SL3-S on the other had will pull away even further with future firmware upgrades. We may even find that in 1-2 years time the SL3-S used price will exceed that of the SL3.

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1 hour ago, SJH said:

Of course but the gap is far wider than it needs to be compared to where the SL2 & SL2-S ended up. There have been no material upgrades to the SL3’s AF etc so given the silence from Leica I can only assume it’s not going to get any better whilst the SL3-S on the other had will pull away even further with future firmware upgrades. We may even find that in 1-2 years time the SL3-S used price will exceed that of the SL3.

The SL2 and SL2-S didn’t have different AF hardware in the way the SL3 and SL3-S do (different PDAF sensor numbers and layout) so I don’t think you can draw any conclusions on how close they can be. 

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13 hours ago, SJH said:

There have been no material upgrades to the SL3’s AF etc so given the silence from Leica I can only assume it’s not going to get any better

Users reported that firmware upgrades improved AF, so "there have been no upgrades to the SL3's AF, ever since upgrades to the SL3's AF." 🙂

The SL3 will never have AF that is as fast as the SL3s. You'll find the same in other full-frame systems: the fastest AF belongs to a lower-resolution sports camera, the high-res body is somewhat slower. 

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Posted (edited)

It’s hard to see the value of the SL3-S vs say a Panasonic S1II. Out of the gate the S1II has more features and a much better LCD design. I am not sure if they share the same sensor or not. The SL3 has the larger resolution over the follow on S1RII but much less feature functionality. 
 

Not to mention 2x the cost SL3-S vs S1II. (Edit) Almost 2x the cost 

 

Paul

Edited by Paul2660
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Paul2660 said:

It’s hard to see the value of the SL3-S vs say a Panasonic S1II. Out of the gate the S1II has more features and a much better LCD design. I am not sure if they share the same sensor or not. The SL3 has the larger resolution over the follow on S1RII but much less feature functionality. 
 

Not to mention 2x the cost SL3-S vs S1II. (Edit) Almost 2x the cost 

 

Paul

Seriously? It's 2025 and people still are debating the value of Leica?

Get a Nikon, it's far superior to Leica in value proposition.

 

Maybe Nikon vs Leica is not a good analogy because you can argue inside of these two are different.

Let me try another one,

Back more than 10 years ago when IWC was still using ETA movement, it's 10 times more expensive than a Hamilton or Oris with same movement inside. How is that value proposition?

 

Edited by Elliot Harper
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3 hours ago, Paul2660 said:

It’s hard to see the value of the SL3-S vs say a Panasonic S1II. Out of the gate the S1II has more features and a much better LCD design. I am not sure if they share the same sensor or not. The SL3 has the larger resolution over the follow on S1RII but much less feature functionality. 
 

Not to mention 2x the cost SL3-S vs S1II. (Edit) Almost 2x the cost 

 

Paul

Cameras should not be judged by their spec sheets, unless you don't intend to use them 🤪.

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5 hours ago, BernardC said:

Users reported that firmware upgrades improved AF, so "there have been no upgrades to the SL3's AF, ever since upgrades to the SL3's AF." 🙂

The SL3 will never have AF that is as fast as the SL3s. You'll find the same in other full-frame systems: the fastest AF belongs to a lower-resolution sports camera, the high-res body is somewhat slower. 

Yes I really do get this with the 24megapixel versions but the Z8, R5II, Sony A1 II are all higher res, the Sony A7RV has the same 60 megapixel sensor but we'll all know how good that is. All I'm saying is that the SL3 is potentially at an AF dead end because Panasonic have gone off with another sensor for their high res camera and the SL3-S is far further in front than the SL2-S was with SL2 comparison. Personally I'd say the firmware upgrades have perhaps made a very marginal improvement to my SL3 but Leica doesn't highlight anything material in their releases and officially Leica will say no specific AF upgrades to the SL3 have ben made since launch, just minor adjustments.

As things stand speaking to Leica the SL3-S will continue to advance AF wise in both stills and video (with help from Panasonic and the S1 II), whilst there appears to be no such will with the SL3 as Leica can't go off the back of the S1R II development and firmware releases. 

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Just curious about the SL3 and the SL3-S. Does the SL3's animal autofocus has moved out of beta with one of the last firmware updates? Have there been any additions or are the new tracking options only available with the SL3-S?

Has the pulsing, flickering in AF-C been fixed with the SL3 and how does the SL3-S behaves there?

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8 hours ago, Elliot Harper said:

Seriously? It's 2025 and people still are debating the value of Leica?

Get a Nikon, it's far superior to Leica in value proposition.

 

Maybe Nikon vs Leica is not a good analogy because you can argue inside of these two are different.

Let me try another one,

Back more than 10 years ago when IWC was still using ETA movement, it's 10 times more expensive than a Hamilton or Oris with same movement inside. How is that value proposition?

 

I guess you disagree?  
 

I am curious as to what the advantages are, seriously. SL3-S over S1II?  
 

I can see that the battery life of the SL3 -S would be better. But what else besides the difference in body design and layout.  I own a lot of Leica but just can’t see much reason for the SL3-S over the Panasonic. 
 

Paul

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6 hours ago, SrMi said:

Cameras should not be judged by their spec sheets, unless you don't intend to use them 🤪.

Not sure what this has to do with my first post. I own Leicas and have always made a value proposition before a purchase. I just don’t see the value.  Maybe you can add your reasons for the purchase?  Not trying to hammer down on Leica just want to know reasons others made the choice (besides the fact that the S1II has yet to ship). 
 

Paul

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5 minutes ago, Paul2660 said:

Not sure what this has to do with my first post. I own Leicas and have always made a value proposition before a purchase. I just don’t see the value.  Maybe you can add your reasons for the purchase?  Not trying to hammer down on Leica just want to know reasons others made the choice (besides the fact that the S1II has yet to ship). 
 

Paul

You claimed that "It’s hard to see the value of the SL3-S vs say a Panasonic S1II" because "the S1II has more features and a much better LCD design."

My reason for purchase: I enjoy using a Leica much more than a Panasonic. For me, enjoying a camera is an essential part of enjoying photography. 

 

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