Considering Upgrade from M10 to M11: Looking for Advice & Color Comparisons

[Massimo-BdG]

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Hi everyone,

About six months ago, I switched to the Leica M system after four enjoyable years with the Leica Q. I purchased a used M10 in great condition at a reasonable price and instantly fell in love with the rangefinder experience. I’m currently using it with a second-generation Summilux 50mm and an Elmarit 90mm and… I absolutely love it. The handling, the shooting experience, and especially the colors this camera produces have truly captured me.

That said, something unexpected happened recently: my trusted dealer offered me a used M11 in near-mint condition, including a second battery and the Visoflex, at what I consider to be a very tempting price, especially factoring in the trade-in value of my M10. The financial difference would be quite reasonable, and the idea of moving to the latest M generation, potentially for many years to come, is definitely appealing.

To be clear, I had no plans to upgrade so soon (it’s only been six months with the M10) but the opportunity is hard to ignore. I’m also intrigued by the Visoflex option, especially if I eventually want to use wider lenses like a 21mm in the future or maybe a 135..

However, I do have some doubts, particularly regarding color rendering. I’m deeply in love with the color output of the M10, and I’ve read quite a few mixed opinions on the color science of the M11. I’d love to hear your experiences and thoughts, ideally with some example comparisons or links to galleries that show the differences in real-world conditions. Seeing the actual files would really help me evaluate.

Another question: is it true that the M11 doesn’t come with a dedicated battery charger? That seems pretty shocking to me for a camera in this price range. With two batteries, it would mean I’d have to charge one in the camera while the other waits – instead of charging one while shooting with the other. Can anyone confirm this and share how you’ve worked around it?

Finally, what general advice would you give someone considering this switch? Are there any particular things I should check or be aware of with the M11, coming from M10?

I’ll be visiting the shop again this weekend to take a closer look and possibly make a decision, so any insights before then would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

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[jaapv]

17 minutes ago, Massimo-BdG said:

nother question: is it true that the M11 doesn’t come with a dedicated battery charger? That seems pretty shocking to me for a camera in this price range.

Nothing to do with price range - rules and regulations. 

May I ask, why is the M10 not suitable for many years to come? Changing to a new model should only be done if that model offers anything worth the price of the change. Otherwise you are only running in an upgrade treadmill. 

[Massimo-BdG]

10 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Nothing to do with price range - rules and regulations. 

May I ask, why is the M10 not suitable for many years to come? Changing to a new model should only be done if that model offers anything worth the price of the change. Otherwise you are only running in an upgrade treadmill. 

You’re right!

But just one example, that scared me a little bit very recently: when I bought the M10 there was just one battery. I’ve then orders a second one, it looks it will arrive in coming days after months of waiting… and I read here and there about difficulties and problems to find it. The problems of digital models going into obsolescence…

Edited Tuesday at 07:28 PM by Massimo-BdG

[Photoworks]

You probably should do the test yourself, go back to the store and put in a card and compare to M10

I am very with the switch and would not go back to the M10. The resulting files from the M11 appeal to me.

The M11 comes with a USB docking station to charge the battery. In most cases one battery is enough for one days use.

[Photoworks]

There is a lot of information on the M11 on this forum, just take your time and go back a few pages.

The only big change I can suggest is to keep the shutter speed above 1/250's to avoid camera shake on high MP sensors.

[pgh]

1 hour ago, Massimo-BdG said:

Finally, what general advice would you give someone considering this switch?

For me the answer was don't.

Lots of reasons, the biggest being my M10 works quite well and the M11 has absolutely nothing about it that would make my pictures better, and a few that might make them worse. No, slightly less noise at ISO 3200 was never something that made a picture better in my uses (just a little less noisy).

The only real issue with the M10 is in the highlights. It's also marginal, and in my 8 years owning one has mattered only a handful of times. If you're shooting landscapes with dramatic variances in light all of the time, like it's your primary subject matter, this might matter enough to get a different camera. Might. But still probably not. Anyways, I only shoot that some of the time, and I can work with it. So ultimately due to the law of averages I've gotten to the point where I say this issue doesn't much apply to me. 

And yea, if you like the color in the m10, it won't be the sam in the m11. For me, it's worse. For lots of people it's actually better. Preferences. Pople will tell you that you can get close with post, and they're right. It just depends on if close works for you, and if you want to put in extra work for it. 

I recently had the chance to add a body to my kit and I chose an M10-D. I could have gone M11 anything. But why complicate my workflow any more? Why add more blurry pictures (or if not, limit your handheld shutter speed, so long ISO advantage I guess) and more time in post and take up more hard drive space? I've never looked at a large print and thought it failed due to lack of detail. It's failed for other reasons, but they had nothing to do with the M10 - with exception to the aforementioned highlight issue - again, only a handful of times.

So I lay my biases out on the table.

By the way, I don't care about a baseplate, nor do I care about a better battery. 

Edited Tuesday at 08:09 PM by pgh

[Massimo-BdG]

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1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

There is a lot of information on the M11 on this forum, just take your time and go back a few pages.

The only big change I can suggest is to keep the shutter speed above 1/250's to avoid camera shake on high MP sensors.

Thanks for the shutter speed advice, I already experienced high MP sensors in the past, I understand..

yes forum has lot of stuff but not able to find comparison photographs between M10 and M11 with same lens and situation. Thanks

[Massimo-BdG]

44 minutes ago, pgh said:

For me the answer was don't.

Lots of reasons, …

Thanks a lot, I appreciate your explanation. I really would like to see direct colors comparisons, still searching online…

Im very comfortable with post, but im actually not willing to spend lot of time on it… so I like camera with ready colors to my tastes …

thanks  

[Al Brown]

There are literally TONS of these comparisons on the forum already, one just has to search for them. Most bear the titles "Upgrading from M10 to M11", "Should I upgrade" or similar. You will also find that in some tests M10-R did better than M11 in certain aspects, but M11 still is the best digital M Leica in the entire known universe.

I never did move from M10 to M11. There is absolutely no need (and I earn my living from photography).

[jgeenen]

Color Science: many M11 show a magenta color cast (in my case consistent in all lighting situations). As long as you process your files, this cast is it easy to correct. After this treatment you won’t be able to distinguish the results from M10 results. The color science of M10 and M11 is in my eyes similar, just the initial calibration is different. 

Charger: Older M11 do have an external charger in the box. That might have changed meanwhile - just check with your dealer.

Visoflex: does work with M10 (with a smaller resolution)

what to check? Nothing in particular. There are customers who experienced issues with the M11, but others (like me) haven’t. According to most reports those issues have been fixed with the most recent firmware updates. I have not seen any pattern that allows to identify a sample with issues upfront. Make sure your dealer has a reasonable return policy.

[Massimo-BdG]

3 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

There are literally TONS of these comparisons on the forum already, one just has to search for them. Most bear the titles "Upgrading from M10 to M11", "Should I upgrade" or similar. You will also find that in some tests M10-R did better than M11 in certain aspects, but M11 still is the best digital M Leica in the entire known universe.

I never did move from M10 to M11. There is absolutely no need (and I earn my living from photography).

Thank you! I’m probably dumb not being able to find comparison photographs to see color differences (same lens and scene in real world). Yes, of course I’ve found several discussions that has created the doubts of this post… but not able finding the comparison I’m asking here above. If you had found lot of comparisons, would you be kind to link? Thanks a lot 

[Massimo-BdG]

3 minutes ago, jgeenen said:

Color Science: many M11 show a magenta color cast (in my case consistent in all lighting situations). As long as you process your files, this cast is it easy to correct. After this treatment you won’t be able to distinguish the results from M10 results. The color science of M10 and M11 is in my eyes similar, just the initial calibration is different. 

Charger: Older M11 do have an external charger in the box. That might have changed meanwhile - just check with your dealer.

Visoflex: does work with M10 (with a smaller resolution)

what to check? Nothing in particular. There are customers who experienced issues with the M11, but others (like me) haven’t. According to most reports those issues have been fixed with the most recent firmware updates. I have not seen any pattern that allows to identify a sample with issues upfront. Make sure your dealer has a reasonable return policy.

Thanks a lot. Yes the dealer is a long time one , really I have no worries about guarantee. Good to know about charger, I’ll check or maybe negotiate for a free one over the deal… if I’ll decide for it.
May I ask you if have some comparison photographs to post between M10 and M11 if you had both for a while? Thanks

[Sandokan]

According to rumours, the M11 wont be the latest generation for very long. 

[Massimo-BdG]

18 minutes ago, Sandokan said:

According to rumours, the M11 wont be the latest generation for very long. 

Yes, I know but I don’t mind. I wrote about generation for a matter of support obsolescence, trading in a 8 years old for a 3 years old model. Sure will arrive new M11-V (or any other name) and M12 in future, that’s very clear. Thanks

[lct]

Charger: My M11 had one in the box but it was in 2022. Now the charger's order # is BC-SCL7.

Colors: Subjective matter. Only you can know. Bring a card at your dealer and shoot. Happy snaps 🙂

[lldd]

A charger has two parts (three if you include the usb cable).  First is the base that the battery rests in while charging.  Second is what plugs into the wall.  M11 includes the first, but not the second.

[Jeff S]

Just to clarify, the M10-R has a new and different sensor than the one in the M10, not just higher MP (40.89 vs 24), as Stefan Daniel has explained*. It was derived from the Leica S3 sensor architecture, as was the M10 Monochrom.  I upgraded from the M10 to the M10-R (and M10 Monochrom), having no interest whatsoever in the M11 platform.  I’m also not worried about finding batteries for these cameras for some years to come.

*  

 

Edited yesterday at 12:09 AM by Jeff S

[jakontil]

One of few things pushed me from m10r Black paint which i loved to m11 was.. the black paint variant, and a usb c lol i sound absurd… 

i wont worry bout color 

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[costa43]

If you are ‘deeply in love’ with the M10 colour then you have answered your question already imo. Stick with what you love.

 

[jgeenen]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb Massimo-BdG:

May I ask you if have some comparison photographs to post between M10 and M11 if you had both for a while?

Unfortunatelly I sold the M10 to fund the M11. The attached samples have been taken in different years and different locations (M10: France 2020, M11: South of Italy, 2024). I adjusted exposure and contrast but left color as shot (WB M10: 5100K according to Lightroom, M11 5600K). Although not directly comparable, you can clearly see the magenta cast of my M11 that is always there (in artificial light or subjects with strong colors it might not be noticeable) and - according to my own testing constant and independent of camera white balance settings (others disagree on this, see the separate threat on this topic). 

The M10 colors and contrast out of camera are much more pleasing to me, but not perfect. The M11 colors and contrast of DNGs are disappointing out of the box but easily correctable. The JPG previews and results of M10 and M11 are much closer (there is still a bit of magenta cast remaining on the M11 files) and acceptable in many cases. 

Note: Any noticeable banding is caused by JPG compression for this upload and not present in the original files

 

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Edited 15 hours ago by jgeenen