Leica APO-Summicron 35 v. Summicron 35

[Juergen_01]

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Dear all,

I‘m new to this forum but not new to the Leica M-System. I had a Leica M9-P back in 2011 with Summilux 35 und 50mm lenses. After problems with sensor corrosion I traded in the M9-P for a Q2, went on to SL2 (using it manually with M-lenses) and after that sold everything and now I‘m a happy owner of a Q3. However, the experience of manual focussing with a rangefinder in addition to the Q3 doesn‘t let me go.

Therefore I‘m strongly considering a Leica M11-P with either the highly expensive APO-Summicron 35 or just the newest Summicron 35.

While reading posts in this forum and many reviews of the APO, I have the impression, that normal lenses like the Summicron 35 are of bad quality and unsharp. Obviously people who used the APO would never buy a non-APO again. I only refer to image quality. Close focusing less then 0.7m is not important for me.

Is it really the case that the APO is so much better and therefore the non-APO Summicron 35 of bad quality in comparison?

How is your impression of the APO vs. normal version in real life shots and not under the microscope?

I would appreciate a lot if you could help me to decide between these two lenses.

Thank you!

Regards, Jürgen

Edited March 19 by Juergen_01

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[SiggiGun]

The APO is an extremely good lens : color rendering, contrast and sharpness in every situation. However, differences may be visible only when wide open and/or under difficult light situation (dark zone of the image)

[didier]

Bokeh is extremely smooth with the APO.

In my view, there is also something clearly visible in color rendition (« purity » of colors).

I agree with @SiggiGun on rendering in difficult light situations : sometimes you get some muddy rendering with ‘normal’ lenses in difficult light/high iso, whereas you don’t have that with the APO.

[Juergen_01]

Dear guys, many thanks for your answer.

I‘m sure the APO is an outstanding lens. I‘m interested to know how close the normal Summicron is.

Does anyone of you own the latest Summicron 35 No. 11673 ?
I‘m curious to know if you have a direct comparison and how much you would rate the normal Summicron.

[Lee S]

Have a look at this comparison between the Summilux, Sunmicron and Summicron APO.

https://leicarumors.com/2021/04/03/acuity-comparison-of-leica-summilux-m-35mm-f-1-4-vs-summicron-m-35mm-f-2-vs-apo-summicron-m-35mm-f-2-lenses.aspx/

Make sure you download the full images.

My thoughts were the Summilux and Summicron looks really sharp,, then you scroll to the APO and it’s just in another dimension.

As others have said it’s amazing in low light as it gets all the details out in low contrast situations.

It’s an easy lens to shoot at all apertures and get tack sharp results, it has the least amount of focus shift I’ve seen in a rangefinder lens which means stopping down gets sharper and your subject is still in the optimal plane of focus. 

The contrast is also outstanding, raw files have a contrast and colour tone that’s unique. 

It’s the sharpest lens I’ve tested and that includes stellar tele lens from Sony. 

Edited March 19 by Lee S

[graphlex]

The Apo is superlative and the non-Apo Summicrons are awfully good.  For most purposes, amateur or professional, the difference would not matter. 

[Stuart Richardson]

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There is also the option to get the Voigtlander APO Lanthar, which is cheaper than either of the Leica versions and closer in performance to the APO Summicron than any other 35mm M mount lens, including any by Leica. The trade off is larger size and no six bit coding. Personally, I would rather save the 7500 dollars and have nearly the same performance. Not everyone agrees, however.

[Vanillasludge]

If you’re the kind of person who wants the very best and can afford it, go with the APO.
 

It won’t really matter photographically, but you won’t have to rethink your decision.  
 

If you buy it used you should not lose too much should you decide to sell it later on.  

[M11 for me]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb graphlex:

The Apo is superlative and the non-Apo Summicrons are awfully good.  For most purposes, amateur or professional, the difference would not matter. 

In other threads this was a "big" fight and (I cannot find it anymore) people who claimed that there is no difference that pops into you eyes where put into the corner of the ignorants. On the other hand you can go to the image thread of the APO lenses (here in the forum)  and there you see that most of these images are as good as any non APO image. 

A few days ago we could read a post (somewhere in the forum)  and the posting person claimed that with the APO you get the feeling that all no-APO images are comparably unsharp. You can read all sorts of opinions. 

Think of: Do you print large print all the time? Do you look for differences between lenses in the right top corners of your images (where in most images it does not matter anyway) at 300% in Lightroom? Then buy the APO. The technical data tell us that it is clearly the better lens. If you have the necessary budget then buy the better lens. But if you buy a non-APO lens you'll miss little to nothing.

[fil-m]

I don’t have a direct comparison between the Leica 35mm APO and its non-APO counterpart, but I can compare it to all of my other lenses, including the Summicron 35 v1 (8 elements) and the Summilux 28 & 35.

In my experience, none of my lenses match the APO in terms of sharpness, color purity, and overall image consistency. How important this is depends on personal preference. For me, two characteristics make the APO stand out: its exceptional clarity—especially in black and white—and its ability to sustain extreme cropping, even when the subject isn’t centered. I don’t crop often, but when I do (usually because I couldn’t get close to the subject in time) the photos holds up remarkably well.

I consider it an exceptional lens for street photography: compact, highly permissive (cropping, tilt, etc.) with no added effects like the glow of my Lux pre-asph. It’s perfect when I want to focus on composition while retaining the flexibility to make adjustments in post. The standard Cron shouldn't be that far from the APO in practical use as it is based on the same concept of a compact lens which is still designed for technical performance.  

[Juergen_01]

Many thanks to all of you for your comments and in-depth information. I see that both the Summicron 35 and the APO are stellar performers. If I can raise the funds I would go for the APO, if not I think I will also be happy with the normal Summicron.
Thanks again!

[ibramr]

At the risk of coming across as flippant, an SL2 and 35mm APO SL in today’s used market will provide a superior and a more cost effective solution than acquiring the 35mm APO M lens alone (even used).  I have both setups and find the SL2 platform very effective.   Please have a look here as an example.  

[swatch]

due to focus shift (wide open at MFD and at about 1.2 / 1.5 meters) my copy of Cron 35mm asph V2 is now mainly mounted on SL2-S for portrait.  haven’t tried the APO version even I will expect no focus shift at all for its reputation.

MTF chart show mid field dip in performance for Corn 35mm asph V2, but I don’t see such in my pictures since I don’t take architecture or landscape with it.

Cron 35mm asph V2 stop down at 8 is as good as I like/need the performance for street photography.

In short there are strength and weakness for Corn 35mm asph V2. Very high price maybe the only cons for APO version.

[swatch]

4 hours ago, ibramr said:

At the risk of coming across as flippant, an SL2 and 35mm APO SL in today’s used market will provide a superior and a more cost effective solution than acquiring the 35mm APO M lens alone (even used).  I have both setups and find the SL2 platform very effective.   Please have a look here as an example.  

That portrait picture is great.

[patrickcolpron]

On 3/19/2025 at 1:53 PM, Juergen_01 said:

While reading posts in this forum and many reviews of the APO, I have the impression, that normal lenses like the Summicron 35 are of bad quality and unsharp. Obviously people who used the APO would never buy a non-APO again. I only refer to image quality. Close focusing less then 0.7m is not important for me.

Is it really the case that the APO is so much better and therefore the non-APO Summicron 35 of bad quality in comparison?

Hi Jürgen,

You assume wrong, I own an APO 35, it is my desert Island lens yet I much prefer the rendering of the Summicron 35 V4 over the APO, I use the APO 35 more than the 35 Cron V4 because the APO 35 is much better when shooting against the light. The 35 Summicron V4 is a much more pleasant lens to use on a daily basis because it is much smaller and lighter than the APO 35.

I also have a 35 Steel Rim and a 35 Summilux FLE which I love and use more than the APO 35, because they are also great against the light.

Non APO are not bad, quite the contrary, when people say they are not as sharp that's probably due to user error as opposed to the lens true sharpness, a lot of the 35 Summicron lenses are better in rendition than the APO 35 M, yet this is widely subjective to one's own taste. 

With an M11-P, I wouldn't purchase an APO 35 to start with but I'd get a 35 FLE, the rendering of the FLE is different and not the best of all the 35 mil lenses Leica has to offer but it is definitely one of the most versatile lenses out there, and frankly it isn't bad. Why limit yourself with an f/2 aperture when you can get an f/1.4 lens for less money. 

Or you could get a Summicron V4 which has better rendering to my eyes than the APO 35, and not only my eyes but also my wife's and my staff's own eyes who I showed comparative shots of the same subjects using both an APO 35 and a Summicron V4 lens (I shared these images in a thread on this forum a while back see bellow)

 

... this is why I recommend you get a 35 FLE, a lens you'll most likely be happier with it than an APO 35 (But what do I know?)  I know the APO 35 SL is a better lens, yet - I'd rather make photos with my smartphone than use an SL camera for photography. I love the manual, tactile approach to the M and its optical viewfinder.

Follow your heart. 

[T25UFO]

21 hours ago, Juergen_01 said:

Many thanks to all of you for your comments and in-depth information. I see that both the Summicron 35 and the APO are stellar performers. If I can raise the funds I would go for the APO, if not I think I will also be happy with the normal Summicron.
Thanks again!

Go for the APO.  Don't think in terms of the cost of the APO, but rather the difference in cost because it's a lens you will keep forever.  This lens does almost everything and the ability to crop with high megapixel cameras like the M11P is amazing.  I use it mainly on the M11M for general photography and portraits.  Here is a recent example.

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[f8low]

On 3/19/2025 at 10:16 PM, Lee S said:

it’s amazing in low light as it gets all the details out in low contrast situations.

Sounds intriguing! Is there any side-by-side comparison with another Lux/Cron in such situations?

[swatch]

choices are subjective, here is a picture I take this morning during breakfast, APO is a better lens but it is not available at the scene unfortunately ( can't afford it ).

SL2-S

at 2.8

crop about 30%

 

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Edited March 22 by swatch

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[hansvons]

On 3/20/2025 at 8:58 PM, Juergen_01 said:

If I can raise the funds I would go for the APO, if not I think I will also be happy with the normal Summicron.

I’m used to shoot with expensive gear on jobs that are paid and insured. Privately, I would never buy an 8k lens mounted on an 8k camera for walking around let alone shooting in demanding environments “just for fun”. I don't have the funds for that (kids, university, you get the idea) nor do I want that “precious, precious” feeling when taking unpaid pictures. Babying the camera and lenses (eg, reflexive lens-capping) doesn't help shoot great pictures. 

I find the 35mm Summicron ASPH everything one needs to shoot sharp and moody images at f/2 onwards with an outdated camera system that has never been made for high-MTF sensors and lenses due to lacking proper IBIS or AF. The M system’s beauty is the user experience that uniquely motivates me, and the imperfect results with unparalleled charm. But digital  IQ is not its strength (that’s why I prefer film M cameras). For that, Leica provides the APO SL lenses and the respective cameras. That’s why I would never buy an M11 or an M APO lens.

All of that is very personal, of course. Instead of the 35mm APO (brilliant lens, no question), I bought a 44” printer. This gave my photography an incredible push on many levels, similar to what I experienced 30 years ago as a young cameraman when I saw my images on the big screen for the first time. No new lens can do that regardless of how great it is (and you will find out its all about the story, the subject, the light and texture, never about the lens).

[Drmat]

I had the 35 APO.  No doubt an amazing lens both aesthetically and technically.  Maybe there is no better lens on the market.  Sold it to a friend (he is also very happy).  I sold it because my 75 noct is my primary lens for the kind of photography i do (and i already own another 35 cron, my friend wanting the APO made it easy to part with).  But the notion that the non-APO is a bad lens is a non-starter with me.  I just shot an editorial with the 35 8-element from 1958.  The photos on the m11m are spectacular.  

Edited March 22 by Drmat