How about a really new lens again?

[FrozenInTime]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

2 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

What no takers for a 14,000 dollar manual focus lens that is heroically difficult to focus on the body it was designed for?

Which makes you wonder who approved this vanity project 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb FrozenInTime:

https://www.reddotcameras.co.uk/m-lenses/15833-leica-summilux-90mm-f15-asph-m.html

Clearly they only made one batch ... and they were slow to sell

Interesting. Although I can understand that this was not a big seller in the M system, I did never see such an announcement from Leica. They continue to promote it in their product catalog. Maybe they are still waiting to see whether there will be a change in demand when an EFV-M is released.

[evikne]

Peter Karbe has already said about five years ago that they are working on new technology that can provide a new generation of smaller lenses. 

The 35mm APO-Summicron was quite small, but I don't know if it contained a taste of this technology, or if we can expect something even smaller.

[T25UFO]

1 hour ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

Interesting. Although I can understand that this was not a big seller in the M system, I did never see such an announcement from Leica. They continue to promote it in their product catalog. Maybe they are still waiting to see whether there will be a change in demand when an EFV-M is released.

I doubt that RDC would say it’s discontinued if that was not the case.  They have shown it as “last product” on their website for months, discounted by nearly £1,000 below list and still not selling.  Ffordes price is almost £2,000 below list.

Leica Store Manchester say it’s no longer available, so not just out of stock because then it would be on back order.

I would love to try this lens but I’m sure I would be frustrated trying to focus wide open on the M.  Probably brilliant on the SL but I have the SL 90mm APO for that.

As others have said, it’s more of a vanity product.

Edited February 23 by T25UFO

[Robert Blanko]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb 3D-Kraft.com:

If I have followed the "roter-punkt-kamera.de" database and the press releases of the last years correctly, the Noctilux-M 75/1.25 ASPH (2018) was the last fundamentally newly developed lens in the M lineup.

Otherwise, we had the APO Summicron 35 (VII) in 2021 with a more fundamental redesign.

The Summilux 35 was modernized somewhat in 2022 - but ultimately probably only in terms of the reduced close-up limit, number of blades and lens hood. The Summilux 50 was also only slightly revised in 2023 (close-up limit, blades, lens hood, may be better coating). The Summicron 28 (III) also seems to have received only a slight revision (close-up limit, lens hood) in 2023.

Otherwise only limited special editions and meanwhile 5 re-issues of some classics. Please correct me, where I am wrong or where I missed something.

Compared to the number of new releases from Voigtländer or, more recently, Thypoch, what is happening at Leica seems rather slow to me, considering that the M series still seems to have the greatest relevance for them.

It may be that the limited number of frame lines of the rangefinder limits the development dynamics, but in the past we have also had various focal lengths below 28mm or, for example, 40mm outside the frame line grid. So there is at least the hope that the lens development engineers will be inspired by a Leica EFV-M to develop new things outside of this framework.

A new lens is overdue!
 

Dear Leica engineers, please give us a 21/50 Bi-APO Summicron. That would be my perfect travel lens in combination with the 60 MP of my M11-D.

[johnson184]

Would be amazing to see a new 135mm and a return of 24mm lenses. 

[3D-Kraft.com]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

vor 5 Stunden schrieb T25UFO:

As others have said, it’s more of a vanity product.

May be - but not because it's a 90/1.5, since 85mm/1.4 is basically a bread-and-butter portrait focal length in any other full frame system. Charging 14x more for a manual lens compared to the (IMO) optically better, more compact, lighter and AF-capable Sigma 85/1.4 DG DN Art shows the loss of reality that has apparently occurred in some areas of Leica.

Edited February 23 by 3D-Kraft.com

[T25UFO]

29 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

Charging 14x more for a manual lens compared to the (IMO) optically better, more compact, lighter and AF-capable Sigma 85/1.4 DG DN Art shows the loss of reality

I don't think the Sigma comes in an M mount so maybe not the best comparison.

I guess Leica would say price reflects the cost of manufacture, German labour, overheads etc.  It's also benchmarked against its sister lens, the  75mm Noctilux, which has a very similar construction.  The 50mm f0.95 Noctilux is also over £11k and that lens seems quite popular, although out of my price range ☹️.

I do think it's more about size, weight and the fact that 90mm lenses generally are not so easy to focus on the M.  Why buy a f1.5 lens and then stop it down?  Rather misses the point of paying so much for a fast lens!

[evikne]

I probably have a rather boring taste and would like nothing more than a new 35 and 50 mm Summicron. They should be small and affordable. To make them small enough, they probably can't be ASPH, FLE, APO or anything like that, but just a continuation of the good old Mandler lenses, made as good as possible with today's technology.

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor einer Stunde schrieb T25UFO:

I don't think the Sigma comes in an M mount so maybe not the best comparison.

I guess Leica would say price reflects the cost of manufacture, German labour, overheads etc.  It's also benchmarked against its sister lens, the  75mm Noctilux, which has a very similar construction.

The rear element of the (similarly designed) Noctilux 75 is about 3mm larger (and consumes the max. available space of the M-mount) than the rear element of the Sigma 85/1.4 (and the Sigma rear element seems to have a similar distance to the sensor). So the M mount cannot be the reason, making these lenses 14x more expensive than the Sigma. The Sigma has 15 elements in 11 groups, an AF and is still much more compact and lightweight than the Summilux with 8 elements in 6 groups. It shows the advantage, Sigma seems to have reached in their latest designs. Sigma manufactures in Japan and labour costs in Japan also do not differ that much from Germany. The black hole is somewhere else...

Edited February 23 by 3D-Kraft.com

[phojomatic]

15 hours ago, FrozenInTime said:

Voigtländer are really playing an A game, with some class leading manual focus lenses for M and other short flange distance cameras.

After their release of the small Color-Skopar 50 f/2.2 and 35 f/3.5, I think it is only a matter of time before we see a fast 35 f/1.0 Nokton ( evolution of the recently discontinued  35 f/1.2 ver III ).

Leica could likely also make a 35 f/1 Noctilux ( smaller than a Zenitar ) but at what cost ?

 

I agree with Voightlander...the 35mm 1.5 is really nice. The new 90mm 2.0 Voight is supposed to be really sharp too.

The only thing that drives my nuts about Voightlander is that there is absolutely ZERO consistency in outward design. It's like ever lens had it's own design team, or the project brief was design the glass first, and fit a barrel around that. Leica is obviously very consistent about their lens family (reissues aside).

[davidmknoble]

15 hours ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

It does not necessarily mean, that they do not work with optical RF. E.g. we see 40mm lenses from Voigtländer like the excellent 40/1.2 ASPH Nokton that can be used on the M, if you have enough phantasy to extrapolate from the wrong frame lines.

I wasn’t talking about frame lines, I was just suggesting that it would have the mechanics to work with a rangefinder.  The cam system in the M lenses is what allows the rangefinder to tell what the distance is.  That is not necessary for an EVF only camera. That’s all I’m suggesting.

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 44 Minuten schrieb davidmknoble:

I wasn’t talking about frame lines, I was just suggesting that it would have the mechanics to work with a rangefinder.  The cam system in the M lenses is what allows the rangefinder to tell what the distance is.  That is not necessary for an EVF only camera. That’s all I’m suggesting.

We have that discussion already in the "EVF rumored" thread. Also an EVF-M could make use of the RF coupling, so new lenses for an EVF-M can still support that feature that helps both approaches. The capability to use also lenses without RF coupling does not necessarily mean that the new lenses must come without it. The error again is to think of an EVF-M being a camera like an SL or Q just with an (uncoupled) M-mount.

Edited February 24 by 3D-Kraft.com

[davidmknoble]

47 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

We have that discussion already in the "EVF rumored" thread. Also an EVF-M could make use of the RF coupling, so new lenses for an EVF-M can still support that feature that helps both approaches. The capability to use also lenses without RF coupling does not necessarily mean that the new lenses must come without it. The error again is to think of an EVF-M being a camera like an SL or Q just with an (uncoupled) M-mount.

You are so not following me.  I simply made a statement that Leica will likely not create M lenses that only work on an EVF camera.  Simple statement. I am not trying to go any further into engineering or design. Sorry you feel like that is an error.

[lct]

Any M-mount lens is supposed to work on any M-mount camera. Hard to imagine Leica removing the focus cam of an M-mount lens to prevent it from working normally on a rangefinder.

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb lct:

Any M-mount lens is supposed to work on any M-mount camera. Hard to imagine Leica removing the focus cam of an M-mount lens to prevent it from working normally on a rangefinder.

Don't know about the M 0.8 cine lenses from Leica. They have M-mount but say "not compatible to analog film cameras".

There are also others like Meyer Optik Görlitz for the Biotar 58/1.5 or Thypoch for their CINE version of the Simeras.

[FrozenInTime]

10 hours ago, phojomatic said:

I agree with Voightlander...the 35mm 1.5 is really nice. The new 90mm 2.0 Voight is supposed to be really sharp too.

The only thing that drives my nuts about Voightlander is that there is absolutely ZERO consistency in outward design. It's like ever lens had it's own design team, or the project brief was design the glass first, and fit a barrel around that. Leica is obviously very consistent about their lens family (reissues aside).

There was a time when Voigtländer lenses had a common design language; most of the Noktons 35/40 f/1.4 , 35/40/50 f/1.2 etc. come from this. Then they hit the crazy button for newer designs. 

Leica are no saints either; for decades, it seemed that each M lens hood design was an experiment !

[FrozenInTime]

8 hours ago, lct said:

Any M-mount lens is supposed to work on any M-mount camera. Hard to imagine Leica removing the focus cam of an M-mount lens to prevent it from working normally on a rangefinder.

The WATE and MATE are discontinued, mechanically complex, lenses that could be replaced with smaller and lower cost non-RF coupled zooms.

They are however slow aperture lenses, so the effectiveness of focus peaking is a counter argument. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[davidmknoble]

1 hour ago, FrozenInTime said:

Leica are no saints either; for decades, it seemed that each M lens hood design was an experiment !

That seems true!  Sometimes I like the screw on lens hoods like the 21 SEM, original 35 ‘lux ASPH FLE because they are sturdy and stay on.  Then there are times I like the old clip on style because they seem thinner.  

[lct]

1 hour ago, FrozenInTime said:

The WATE and MATE are discontinued, mechanically complex, lenses that could be replaced with smaller and lower cost non-RF coupled zooms [...]

Leica did issue at least one uncoupled M-mount lens already (Hologon 15/8) but it was supposed to work on both RF and sans-RF M cameras.