How to un see Magenta cast?

[Smogg]

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44 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Isn't it "only" an AWB issue?

Unfortunately, no. Daylight WB improves the situation considerably, but does not fix it completely.

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[MattiasAndersson]

16 hours ago, Ne314satel said:

You won't believe it, but in all of them))

Could you please change your profile picture to a static one? It is not just the magenta cast that distracts my brain while reading this interesting thread...

Edited June 1 by MattiasAndersson
spelling

[pedaes]

14 hours ago, pgh said:

Maybe if photoshop was a hobby of mine

I am guessing you don't print. In film wet print days hours could be spent on a print in the darkroom, and very much part of the single hobby of photography. Why should time spent in the lightroom not also be part of the process?

[jaapv]

15 hours ago, pgh said:

An image’s potential is subjective.

Could you please explain this? If an image has a potential, does the opinion of the person who looks at it change the file in any way?

[pgh]

39 minutes ago, pedaes said:

I am guessing you don't print. In film wet print days hours could be spent on a print in the darkroom, and very much part of the single hobby of photography. Why should time spent in the lightroom not also be part of the process?

I print enough to need to replace print heads in my Epsons. When I turn in files to a client I often send a scan of a print instead of the digital file because it’s a better rendition of how I want my work to be (digitally) reproduced.

Are there any other assumptions you have for me or what I should be concerned about in doing my job - which I’ve been doing for 20 + years? 

I welcome critical feedback, but I’ll take it from my editors and art directors and peers who I have relationships with. So far they’re not telling me I need more time in Lightroom or photoshop. 

Edited June 1 by pgh

[Smudgerer]

I know I'm probably going to be snapped at, ( or ignored. which is a better reaction........), but honestly over a couple of digital decades or more have yet to find a sensor in a good still or digital cinema camera that doesn't have a colour bias of one form or another to my eye, and that "to my eye" is the important caveat.........All of us see things slightly differently from the other in terms of colour whether it's in real life or reproduced "life" in whatever camera's results show us. This is why God in his/her infinite wisdom invented colour correction in post-production and with another infinite brain wave didn't make it as difficult as say, the parting of the Red Sea too.

I just don't see the issue, and I've both the M10s and the M11's, and when working in colour I expect to have to apply colour correction in post............Or if I am too faffed to do that I pick up the 11-M or Q2M.

Edited June 1 by Smudgerer

[Smudgerer]

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just to follow up on what I said about all this in the previous post getting the "right" colour balance in digital cinema post production involves using monitors that cost more than a few tens of thousands of $$$$ to help grade true and in colour / lighting neutral grading rooms so there's no reflected bias on the working screens, plus any production worth it's salt would shoot a neutral gray card/Color Checker card at the head or tail, maybe both if lighting conditions change, of a scene/lighting set-up in both film or digital productions so as to aid the timer/colourist to achieve neutral room/scene white balance...............and even then having achieved the look to be as near as dammit exactly like the shooting conditions with these techniques and aids nine times out of ten the director/producer/colourist/DoP/ in the timing session will dial-in their preferences away from the "true" colour to get the "look" they really want. With the gear and screens that +98% of us use to time/colour correct our Leica snaps  there's little chance other than pure luck that we will get a truly representative colour result out of any "out of the camera" file so really don't expect perfection, that's a chimera.

Edited June 1 by Smudgerer

[lct]

Matter of taste, perfect balance to me, to the point that i use jpegs more and more with the M11. Glad Leica didn't change anything re color. YMMV.

[Velo-city]

3 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

just to follow up on what I said about all this in the previous post getting the "right" colour balance in digital cinema post production involves using monitors that cost more than a few tens of thousands of $$$$ to help grade true and in colour / lighting neutral grading rooms so there's no reflected bias on the working screens, plus any production worth it's salt would shoot a neutral gray card/Color Checker card at the head or tail, maybe both if lighting conditions change, of a scene/lighting set-up in both film or digital productions so as to aid the timer/colourist to achieve neutral room/scene white balance...............and even then having achieved the look to be as near as dammit exactly like the shooting conditions with these techniques and aids nine times out of ten the director/producer/colourist/DoP/ in the timing session will dial-in their preferences away from the "true" colour to get the "look" they really want. With the gear and screens that +98% of us use to time/colour correct our Leica snaps  there's little chance other than pure luck that we will get a truly representative colour result out of any "out of the camera" file so really don't expect perfection, that's a chimera.

With decades of working in professional cinema in various capacities all of which involve final picture grading sessions, I definitely would not agree that the likes of Arri/sony cinema cameras have unexpected colours. Far from it they have extremely detailed data sheets and luts and are well respected for their colour accuracy and realism. 
 

Colourists don't actually often neutral grade anything based on grey charts - other than perhaps specific technical/calibration tests  in pre-production - because mostly nowadays looks are already set with the DoP / grading facility in advance so that even the dailies are somewhat pre-graded via luts and live grading onset, and those grades form the basis for final grading sessions, which as you correctly say are usually quite heavily stylised because you’re not flicking through individual images you are immersed in scenes for a long time so you can absorb colour palettes quite differently to stills and often even blend to different palettes over the course of the film. But when you turn all the creative Luts off in the camera, and set them correctly, in my experience you do not ever see randomly magenta outputs for example, and it doesn’t vary from body to body either.

With modern digital stills  cameras, there’s an expectation that they capture the scene with realistic colours, which can then be manipulated afterwards. The starting point should not be having to do individual fixes seemingly randomly just to balance them all - not to the extent the M11 requires (for some people) anyway. If Leica had cinema cameras that performed like  the M11, all experienced DoPs would block their use and Leica would be a laughing stock.

As a side note, for cinema releases the grading would primarily be projected rather than monitors but yes those projectors are insanely expensive. Colour science is complicated but pretty well understood nowadays with established workflows. No gods required, it’s all science and technology. 

[Derbyshire Man]

Here's the same shot with a q3 and M11 on AWB. Yes I can largely correct with the eyedropper on the white bucket and a bit of manipulation of saturation.

Can you guess which is the M11😀 

Both the M11P and M11D are the same.

The Q3 image is colour accurate.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[lct]

No need to manipulate a couple of clicks with the pipette is enough. Even simple tools like Apple Preview can do that.

[Carlos cruz]

19 minutes ago, Derbyshire Man said:

Can you guess which is the M11😀 

If you’d remove some of the data above the pictures that would level the field for proper guessing game. 
But magenta problem is visible, I’d ask Leica for two cyan filters per camera 

Edited June 1 by Carlos cruz

[Derbyshire Man]

8 minutes ago, Carlos cruz said:

If you’d remove some of the data above the pictures that would level the field for proper guessing game. 
But magenta problem is visible, I’d ask Leica for two cyan filters per camera 

The guess suggestion was a joke. It’s obvious with or without the title. LCT is correct, the eye dropper on the white object worked very well but of course there isn’t always a neutral object in the image. In that situation I suppose you could argue that it’s harder to spot correct from incorrect colour anyway in that circumstance. 

[SrMi]

26 minutes ago, Derbyshire Man said:

The guess suggestion was a joke. It’s obvious with or without the title. LCT is correct, the eye dropper on the white object worked very well but of course there isn’t always a neutral object in the image. In that situation I suppose you could argue that it’s harder to spot correct from incorrect colour anyway in that circumstance. 

AWB or Cloudy in the post-processor may fix it, too, right?

Most of the time, the choice of WB should fit the photographer's preference, not what it was. If you must have the original colors, one should not trust AWB and use a grey card to white balance.

I believe photographers still use AWB because WB does not matter when shooting raw, and AWB gives you approximate colors for efficient image review.

P.S.: My Q-s are all now in manual WB.

Edited June 1 by SrMi

[Ne314satel]

10 hours ago, MattiasAndersson said:

Could you please change your profile picture to a static one? It is not just the magenta cast that distracts my brain while reading this interesting thread...

is this better? without the magenta cast)

Edited June 1 by Ne314satel

[Carlos cruz]

25 minutes ago, Derbyshire Man said:

The guess suggestion was a joke. It’s obvious with or without the title. LCT is correct, the eye dropper on the white object worked very well but of course there isn’t always a neutral object in the image. In that situation I suppose you could argue that it’s harder to spot correct from incorrect colour anyway in that circumstance. 

Sorry I am really useless when it comes to reading intentions, emotions etc 
Magenta shouldn’t be a problem when shooting raw. Having to fix it with every photo is definitely problematic. I am more and more convinced that I’ll go to m12 from m10

[Ne314satel]

2 minutes ago, Carlos cruz said:

Magenta shouldn’t be a problem when shooting raw. Having to fix it with every photo is definitely problematic. I am more and more convinced that I’ll go to m12 from m10

I decided to do it easier. Leica only for b/w. Hasselblad for color. Some kind of peace of mind came without purple)))

[Smogg]

40 minutes ago, Ne314satel said:

I decided to do it easier. Leica only for b/w. Hasselblad for color. Some kind of peace of mind came without purple)))

Alas, but no Hasselblad can replace a rangefinder. Yes, the color of the X2D is much better, but color is not the only criterion, the compositions end up being completely different, the head works differently. There is no substitute for a rangefinder!

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[Ne314satel]

6 minutes ago, Smogg said:

Alas, but no Hasselblad can replace a rangefinder. Yes, the color of the X2D is much better, but color is not the only criterion, the compositions end up being completely different, the head works differently. There is no substitute for a rangefinder!

Yes, the rangefinder is faster than the x2d. For street - Leica in b/w. Landscape and architecture - Hasselblad.
On M11 15mm - not enough DD. But with 0.95 I like street photography.

[pedaes]

2 hours ago, Derbyshire Man said:

on AWB.

Give 'Daylight' a try (on M11).