EVF M rumoured

[Alberti]

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2 hours ago, JoshuaR said:

The issue with this approach is that it works best with lenses that are wide open and 50mm or longer. That creates the most contrast between the in-focus plane and the rest of the image.

Quite right - you need 'digital' lenses - how can I explain:

- it will never work with a heavily coma-tesque lens like a 35mm Summilux v1 and v2 wide open - it might not give the required contrast for the mechanisms to show the correct aid.

Of course you can assess what the focus is - by yourself turning a bit forward and backward like you do on a vintage SLR. (the vintage split screen was good too).

[lct]

59 minutes ago, evikne said:

What about the “decisive moment”? [...]

Must be the “Nikonese moment” that may happen after the shot, as opposed to the “Messsucher moment” that may happen before the shot

 

[phojomatic]

Serious question: Is a similar EVF-M thread going on in the German M11 forum? If so, any particular new insights or have we covered it all (and then some) here?

Thanks in advance.

[Derbyshire Man]

11 hours ago, algrove said:

The first Leica try could be putting the Viso 2 into an M sized camera before they venture down unknown and more expensive paths.

Since Leica has always used the term Viso with M cameras, it could be called the V or MV.

Coming to this late so many more posts to go but categorically the visoflex 2 is not good enough! 5-6mp as minimum is needed. 

Edited February 15 by Derbyshire Man

[SrMi]

18 minutes ago, Derbyshire Man said:

Coming to this late so many more posts to go but categorically the visoflex 2 is not good enough! 5-6mp as minimum is needed. 

I do not think the resolution is the main differentiator in EVFs. Refresh rate, contrast, etc, are more critical.

[mikeamosau]

10 hours ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

Wrong (again and again). "Messsucher" only means "rangefinder". it does not necessarily mean an optomechanical implementation. This was only the case in the past due to a lack of alternatives. Don't mix up tradition with definition.. 

Think I’ll just go with the words of Stefan Daniel from Leica for the ‘wrong again’ comment:

“Stefan said he was not a big fan of the idea, believing that the M should remain in its pure form. After all, as he said, M stands for Messsucher (range-viewfinder), and it would always remain the hallmark of the range.”

But, what It seems I am reading in this thread is people want a camera that is not a rangefinder; not a M…They want a smaller SL.

Maybe Leica will make that. Seems Stefan, like me, does not love the idea though. Maybe he has softened on it after the LSI poll/survey. Time will tell. 

Edited February 15 by mikeamosau
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[Stevejack]

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7 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

 

The whole point of the M system is its quality, very careful thought and simplicity of its operation.  Not any one thing.

100% agree

2 hours ago, Derbyshire Man said:

Coming to this late so many more posts to go but categorically the visoflex 2 is not good enough! 5-6mp as minimum is needed. 

Agreed - the existing visoflex 2 is better than nothing but the visoflex is simply not good enough for fast focusing and it would be a terrible experience if that's the way they end up going. An Integrated EVF needs to be at LEAST as good as the one in the SL2. And that's really not asking for much given how old that camera is. 

[algrove]

3 hours ago, Derbyshire Man said:

Coming to this late so many more posts to go but categorically the visoflex 2 is not good enough! 5-6mp as minimum is needed. 

Perhaps, but the Viso 2 works for me, but if one needs more then there is the Q EVF or the SL EVF both of which I also use,.

[raizans]

1 hour ago, mikeamosau said:

Seems Stefan, like me, does not love the idea though. Maybe he has softened on it after the LSI poll/survey. Time will tell. 

Stefan Daniels was probably being politic, not wanting to potentially offend the purists while also being responsive to their user base.

[jrichie]

42 minutes ago, algrove said:

Perhaps, but the Viso 2 works for me, but if one needs more then there is the Q EVF or the SL EVF both of which I also use,.

would you agree that the SL EVF is the best one, then the Q then the Visio?  

I was quite disappointed with the visioflex2 but impressed by the SL. The Q3 feels like it is in the middle.  This is all just my personal perception.

[lct]

1 hour ago, mikeamosau said:

“Stefan said he was not a big fan of the idea, believing that the M should remain in its pure form. After all, as he said, M stands for Messsucher (range-viewfinder), and it would always remain the hallmark of the range.”

He said also (sorry to repeat but the above quote is truncated)  that if there were sufficient demand, they would consider producing an "M with EVF". Asked how many they would need to sell, Stefan Daniel replied “a couple of thousand” (link).

[Evan-Liu]

Is it possible to develop the next generation "Messsucher" by combining the rangefinder with a transparent EVF? 
This way, it would function similarly to a head-up display, with the rangefinder visible through the transparent OLED, which would remain in the sightline even when the shutter is released, no longer have a screen blackout.

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the picture from https://www.oled-info.com/transparent-oleds

[jaapv]

9 hours ago, jaapv said:

On a number of cameras we have pre-release which enables the user to take the shot up to 1.5 seconds before the shutter is pressed. 

This is not a joke. The camera runs a permanent loop of the sensor output in 4K or 6K and stores it at button press.

[Chris W]

16 hours ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

Another silly prejudice. The "Noctilux wide open" thread shows enough examples - also, but not only - from professionals where it is more than just an effect lens.

Sure, but they ARE niche lenses. Even with all the aids in the world, it is difficult to have more than one tiny point in focus with such an f stop.

They are popular with hobbyists because they don't need to worry about the rest of their frame being engaging, because it's all a massive blur.

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb mikeamosau:

“Stefan said he was not a big fan of the idea, believing that the M should remain in its pure form. After all, as he said, M stands for Messsucher (range-viewfinder), and it would always remain the hallmark of the range.”

Yes, "range-viewfinder" comes closer (and this is, what I explained, and it still does not necessarily mean that it's opto-mechanical), but no one uses that term and no (online-)translater will give you that translation.

vor 1 Stunde schrieb jaapv:

This is not a joke. The camera runs a permanent loop of the sensor output in 4K or 6K and stores it at button press.

Of course, this is not a joke. If you are not only in still-life or landscape, there are many moments that cannot be anticipated and when you see them and press the shutter button, you'll usually miss it. Some "bird-photographers" find that quite useful - not only here: https://www.sonyalphaforum.de/topic/7240-sony-a1-ii-bilder-und-erfahrungen/?do=findComment&comment=218049 😄

vor 29 Minuten schrieb Chris W:

Sure, but they ARE niche lenses. Even with all the aids in the world, it is difficult to have more than one tiny point in focus with such an f stop.

They are popular with hobbyists because they don't need to worry about the rest of their frame being engaging, because it's all a massive blur.

In portrait photography outside studio or 100% controllable environments, that sometimes is exactly what you want and this does'nt mean that only hobbyists demand it.

Noctilux 75/1.25 - still not enough blur...:

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Edited February 15 by 3D-Kraft.com

[justj]

I am hoping it will be like Fujifilm's x-pro series' OVF and EVF 2 in 1 finder. 

[jaapv]

21 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

 

Of course, this is not a joke. If you are not only in still-life or landscape, there are many moments that cannot be anticipated and when you see them and press the shutter button, you'll usually miss it. Some "bird-photographers" find that quite useful 

 

My post is a reaction to a laughing “like “ 

[Chris W]

24 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

 

Noctilux 75/1.25 - still not enough blur...:

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To me it looks like you cut and pasted the main subject the separation is so extreme. And you think it's not enough?

[IkarusJohn]

1 minute ago, Chris W said:

To me it looks like you cut and pasted the main subject the separation is so extreme. And you think it's not enough?

Interesting you should say that, Chris.  It was my reaction when I saw this too.

Using a wide open aperture is great for subject isolation, but this is what can happen.  One of the reasons I love the 35 APO Summicron-M, 0.95 Noctilux, the 50 Summilux-SL, the 50 Summilux-M and the 75 Summilux - the roll-off from in focus to out of focus is so smooth that you don’t get the same sharp transition.  Some of it is also composition, of course.

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[MarkP]

5 hours ago, lct said:

He said also (sorry to repeat but the above quote is truncated)  that if there were sufficient demand, they would consider producing an "M with EVF". Asked how many they would need to sell, Stefan Daniel replied “a couple of thousand” (link).

I love my leica optical viewfinders but I would probably buy one of those few thousand, especially if it is cheaper not requiring a complex optical viewfinder.