EVF M rumoured

[RF’sDelight]

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Am 28.8.2025 um 11:47 schrieb Jipster:

The video you referenced is basically laying the groundwork for a Leica M-mount with integrated EVF as the next evolution. IMHO it clearly hints at EVF as the next step and I suspect the video was released as a pre-pre-teaser for the rumored Leica M-mount with EVF. The traditional Leica M will stay for as long as people buy it and it is financially viable.  By pursuing two parallel lines, Leica will let the market decides or not decide (if both lines make financial sense, they will coexist for the foreseeable future). Smart move from a business perspective. 

Thanks for the insights.

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[elmars]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb DadDadDaddyo:

Who, on this great green Earth, actually picks a camera based on its physical appearance?? 

Me!!!

But it's only a necessary condition, not a sufficient one. I don't spend money on something, especially not that much, that I don't find beautiful. 

[DadDadDaddyo]

To use a camera is to assume a physically ridiculous outward position, made sensible only by its pragmatic and aesthetic purpose. 

Who otherwise holds up a rectangular object, a six inch long piece of 2x4 for example, who holds it up to their face, covering their eyes? The only possible explanation is that there must be some other purpose made possible by this bizarre action, one that matters more to the practitioner than the appearance it creates. 

The form follows the function. The beauty is in its fulfillment of purpose. One may admire the craft involved in the tool's making, but it's the practical capabilities that it extends to the user, the aesthetics purposes to which the user may apply those capabilities, that make the whole thing, the whole process, the entire activity, achieve beauty.

Who in their right mind would be caught dead with their head under a focusing cloth, their back side sticking out, focusing and framing a view camera? It's thanks to the pioneers who gave not one thought to their appearance while performing the act that we even have access to the craft and art of photography today. 

Who picks out a shovel, or a tire iron, or a can opener, based upon how it looks or it how it makes them look?

What matters is getting the job done. 

"Oh my, what an elegant plumber's helper! The way it looks makes me want to plunge more clogged basins!"

[pgk]

3 minutes ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

Who in their right mind would be caught dead with their head under a focusing cloth, their back side sticking out, focusing and framing a view camera? It's thanks to the pioneers who gave not one thought to their appearance while performing the act that we even have access to the craft and art of photography today. 

I have an aesthetically pleasing red and black Paramo focusing cloth I'll have you know ..... 😁.

[DadDadDaddyo]

That's great! I like my emerald green Toyo VX125 way better than the plain black ones. 

I get it, I really do.

[UliWer]

8 hours ago, costa43 said:

and it will be the first M lens with electronic coupling

You won‘t believe it, though all lenses with rangefinder coupling have electronic coupling with an M body which has a CMOS sensor. 

If you turn the focus ring of any lens which is rangefinder coupled it will activate an electronic contact which is placed at the camera’s lever for the rangefinder and triggers LV zoom and focus peaking (provided you have activated these functions in the menu and you use LV). This was introduced with the M (Typ 240) long ago and all following digital M models have it. So focussing your lens will act like a button (the cameras have one on the front side which you can use as well) or using the thumb wheel. You don‘t need 6-bit-coding, any coupled lens from Leica or any third party, even with an appropriate LTM-to-M adapter will work like this. 

Of course one may say that LV zoom and focus peaking isn‘t sufficient. Yes, though better devices have to be implemented at the camera’s side. Lenses with rangefinder coupling have everything you need to activate better devices.  

 

Edited September 2 by UliWer

[BernardC]

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3 hours ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

Who, on this great green Earth, actually picks a camera based on its physical appearance?? 

Photographers have strong opinions about how things look!

[charlesphoto99]

4 hours ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

Who, on this great green Earth, actually picks a camera based on its physical appearance?? 

Ok, I'm partly guilty of that... M10-R black paint, couldn't resist. That said, I traded in my M10 which had something like 90k shots on it, so my cameras aren't exactly wallflowers, and I appreciated the upgrades the R brought. It's nicely brassed now with almost 95k shots taken. 

[costa43]

2 hours ago, UliWer said:

You won‘t believe it, though all lenses with rangefinder coupling have electronic coupling with an M body which has a CMOS sensor. 

If you turn the focus ring of any lens which is rangefinder coupled it will activate an electronic contact which is placed at the camera’s lever for the rangefinder and triggers LV zoom and focus peaking (provided you have activated these functions in the menu and you use LV). This was introduced with the M (Typ 240) long ago and all following digital M models have it. So focussing your lens will act like a button (the cameras have one on the front side which you can use as well) or using the thumb wheel. You don‘t need 6-bit-coding, any coupled lens from Leica or any third party, even with an appropriate LTM-to-M adapter will work like this. 

Of course one may say that LV zoom and focus peaking isn‘t sufficient. Yes, though better devices have to be implemented at the camera’s side. Lenses with rangefinder coupling have everything you need to activate better devices.  

 

I think it needs to be a bit more advanced than what we currently have. The way it works om the Nikon ZF when using a manual lens is a little box that is tracking the eye lights up a different colour when it’s in focus. This confirmation only works with the lenses that have electronic contacts. Those that don’t, still can track the eye but you will not get the confirmation. If Leica can achieve something like this without any electronics then great. I think it’s a real good way to modernise focusing on an EVF camera with a manual optic. 

[jrichie]

5 hours ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

This is a fresh take on at least two fronts, and I think I'm in complete agreement with these observations.

Adressing the second first, it's a solid observation. Think: how many cameras with an EVF can anyone name that are primarily manual focus?

On mainstream EVF cameras the reliance is on autofocus, with manual focus (with various attempts at focus assistance) provided as an auxiliary function. Manual focus is there as a kind of fallback on these cameras, something to be used in particular contingencies. Sure, the EV works great on an SL, but so does the autofocus. The autofocus on an M is simply dreadful. 

On an M, the rangefinder is the primary focus mechanism and, again, an EVF is offered as an auxiliary method for use when called for. 

An EVF M would propose to offer the EVF as the primary focus method. Imaginative focus assists would be the only fallback present. There is no provision for autofocus. 

Functionally, the Visoflex 2 is a well thought out solution to the challenge of providing EVF auxiliary functionality for use when desired. The only downside (for folks who care about such things) is its physical appearance sitting on top of the camera. And that brings us to the second point...

Who, on this great green Earth, actually picks a camera based on its physical appearance?? 

It's not a fashion accessory. It is a functional tool, with functional, utilitarian add-ons designed to provide auxiliary capabilities to optimize that functionality under specific circumstances.

Sure, admire its design, but don't pose with it in front of a mirror to decide whether you like it. (Does this camera make me look fat?)

Get a cool pair of shades, maybe a hat.

Way more effective, and way cheaper. 

I, on this great green Earth choose aesthetics over a lot of things [much to my financial detriment]. May sound illogica to you, but we are illogical creatures.

Back on course, the reason I would choose an EVF over OVF is being able to wear my glasses [and they are very nice ones too] and see what I am actually framing.

Edited September 2 by jrichie
typos

[DadDadDaddyo]

19 minutes ago, jrichie said:

May sound illogica to you, but we are illogical creatures.

True, and I love us all!

[beewee]

4 hours ago, UliWer said:

You won‘t believe it, though all lenses with rangefinder coupling have electronic coupling with an M body which has a CMOS sensor. 

If you turn the focus ring of any lens which is rangefinder coupled it will activate an electronic contact which is placed at the camera’s lever for the rangefinder and triggers LV zoom and focus peaking (provided you have activated these functions in the menu and you use LV). This was introduced with the M (Typ 240) long ago and all following digital M models have it. So focussing your lens will act like a button (the cameras have one on the front side which you can use as well) or using the thumb wheel. You don‘t need 6-bit-coding, any coupled lens from Leica or any third party, even with an appropriate LTM-to-M adapter will work like this. 

By the same logic, you could say that the white and black 6-bit coding on the lens mount is a form of ‘electronic’ coupling because a photodiode on the M-body can read the 6-bit code to figure out which lens is mounted. But I think that’s not really the point here.

One thing that genuinely keeps me from buying more M lenses is the inconsistent aperture estimate which really throws off Lightroom panorama stitching.

I would love to see Leica add some electronic contacts in addition to the 6-bit coding that would enable some form of digital communication between lens and body, similar to how ROM enabled R-mount lenses were able to communicate aperture information to the body. This could also benefit image quality in that having accurate aperture data would help with lens profile corrections, whether it’s done in-body or in post-processing for things like vignetting. It could potentially also improve on other forms of color corrections as well.

Such an implementation would not really require that many contacts since there’s no need for a high-speed data bus to drive AF motors or things of that nature. 3-4 electronic contacts would be enough to supply power to the chip, and enable 2-way communication. The lens bayonet itself is metal and it can act as the ‘ground’ line between the lens and body.

[evikne]

5 minutes ago, beewee said:

One thing that genuinely keeps me from buying more M lenses is the inconsistent aperture estimate which really throws off Lightroom panorama stitching.

Before creating a panorama in LR, I always use the LensTagger plugin to correct the aperture value.

[beewee]

1 hour ago, evikne said:

Before creating a panorama in LR, I always use the LensTagger plugin to correct the aperture value.

Thanks! I was looking for such a tool but didn’t find any in my initial search. 

I’ll have to give it a try.

[jaapv]

9 hours ago, beewee said:

Demand is often cyclical for M bodies. It often takes 12-24 months after a new body generation is released before back orders are filled and there’s somewhat regular stock available in the sales channels. This is when Leica usually starts to release the mid-cycle refreshed “P” models and that gives another small boost for another 12 months. Then come niche variants such as the “D” models and special editions.

Depending on the development roadmap, there’s a life-extension update that gives the platform another 12-24 months before the next generation platform is released. For the M10 generation, it came in the form of the M10-R. I’m guessing the M11 EVF variant, currently being referred to as M11-V, is going to take the place of that update for the M11 generation.

The next logical core technology increment for the M system is to adopt a stacked or partially stacked sensor and add IBIS but that will drive up costs and Leica has to convince Sony to sell them such a sensor.

There are more sensor makers than Sony...  

[BWColor]

10 hours ago, Tseg said:

I've seen a lot of videos on the launch of the Hasselblad X2D2.  On one hand, I am intrigued, on the other, I'm thinking there is no way I would enjoy lugging that monstrosity around with me.   I moved from the Sony RX1 to the M11/Q3, and that was a big upgrade in size/weight for me.

The cannon of a lens might make it a monstrosity, in which case I agree.  With the 38mm v lens the camera is very comfortable to hold and a joy to shoot.  This is one camera/lens that I travel with.  The other is the M11M/21mm, or 35mm.

[beewee]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

There are more sensor makers than Sony...  

Yes, there are many sensor makes. But what about stacked and partially stacked imaging sensors?

[lencap]

Quite an interesting thread.  Happily I don't have to make the decision about introducing a M11-V variant.  What I did consider is "How would I position a M11-V?"

II asked an advertising pro I know with lots of product launch experience (and very familiar with Leica M through personal use) to suggest how to market it. I was impressed with her thoughts and seemingly effortless ability to craft a message.  Her comments follow:

If they launch an EVF-M, the key challenge is to sell it as an expansion of choice, not a betrayal of tradition.  Leica’s marketing thrives on storytelling, heritage, and precision, so the messaging must be careful.

How to Position a M11-V: 

“The Leica M has always been about simplicity, craftsmanship, and direct connection between photographer and subject. The new Leica M11-V builds on this tradition with modern clarity — bringing the legendary M experience into new hands, without compromise.”

• Emphasize continuity: same M body, same lenses, same philosophy — but with a new way to see.

• Calling it a M11-V shows it a variant, not a new generation - minimize purist concerns.

Clever Marketing:  

• “The M, in a new light.”

• “The soul of the M. The clarity of an EVF.”

• “For those who see differently.”

• “The range expands — the spirit remains.”

Target Audience:

1. The Legacy User (aging eyesight):

   • Message: “Still love your M lenses? Focus with precision, even at f/1.4, even at night.”

   • Benefit: Accessibility without compromise.

2. The Modern Enthusiast:

   • Message: “Live view, focus peaking, and instant preview — the M spirit with digital clarity.”

   • Benefit: Makes the M approachable for new generations.

3. The Professional Photographer:

   • Message: “Shoot wide, shoot long, shoot wide-open — with confidence.”

   • Benefit: Expands M-mount usability into genres where the RF was limited.

4. Pricing: Slightly below the RangeFinder M:

   • Positioning: “The most accessible M yet — without compromise on craftsmanship.”

 

Edited September 3 by lencap

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[mikeamosau]

1 hour ago, lencap said:

Quite an interesting thread.  Happily I don't have to make the decision about introducing a M11-V variant.  What I did consider is "How would I position a M11-V?"

II asked an advertising pro I know with lots of product launch experience (and very familiar with Leica M through personal use) to suggest how to market it. I was impressed with her thoughts and seemingly effortless ability to craft a message.  Her comments follow:

If they launch an EVF-M, the key challenge is to sell it as an expansion of choice, not a betrayal of tradition.  Leica’s marketing thrives on storytelling, heritage, and precision, so the messaging must be careful.

How to Position a M11-V: 

“The Leica M has always been about simplicity, craftsmanship, and direct connection between photographer and subject. The new Leica M11-V builds on this tradition with modern clarity — bringing the legendary M experience into new hands, without compromise.”

• Emphasize continuity: same M body, same lenses, same philosophy — but with a new way to see.

• Calling it a M11-V shows it a variant, not a new generation - minimize purist concerns.

Clever Marketing:  

• “The M, in a new light.”

• “The soul of the M. The clarity of an EVF.”

• “For those who see differently.”

• “The range expands — the spirit remains.”

Target Audience:

1. The Legacy User (aging eyesight):

   • Message: “Still love your M lenses? Focus with precision, even at f/1.4, even at night.”

   • Benefit: Accessibility without compromise.

2. The Modern Enthusiast:

   • Message: “Live view, focus peaking, and instant preview — the M spirit with digital clarity.”

   • Benefit: Makes the M approachable for new generations.

3. The Professional Photographer:

   • Message: “Shoot wide, shoot long, shoot wide-open — with confidence.”

   • Benefit: Expands M-mount usability into genres where the RF was limited.

4. Pricing: Slightly below the RangeFinder M:

   • Positioning: “The most accessible M yet — without compromise on craftsmanship.”

 

Damnit! Now I want one! 😃

[pgk]

4 hours ago, lencap said:

If they launch an EVF-M, the key challenge is to sell it as an expansion of choice, not a betrayal of tradition.

The problem with doing this is expectation. Sure its an expansion of choice but then delivering a product which might not live up to expectations would be worse than not making it in the first place - in essence this theme runs through this thread.

The reality of an EVF-M would be that it would be a manual focus EVF camera which, whilst undoubtedly innovative, also is a risk as it will inevitably be compared to other EVF cameras available. I use EVF cameras with both manual focus and autofocus lenses. I finder it quicker to achieve a good point of focus using AF, even interventionally (by specifying where it is to focus) than by using manual focus, and this will inevitably mean that an EVF-M camera is slower to use than other EVF cameras. I would also say that using manual focus lenses on an EVF camera is slower than on an rf-M; certainly this is my experience. And the rf-M's strength is precise wide-angle focus which can be trickier with manual focus wides on an EVF camera.

Advertising hype is one thing, but in Leica's case the hype must at some point have some validation from the reality of users. Depite all the desires for such a camera I still see it as potentially, perhaps fatally, flawed unless Leica can be really innovative and come up with a solution which doesn't leave such a camera 'hobbled' which is why I would come back to the concept of an M shaped L camera, although this would take some doing even today, and would require a 'seamless' M adapter for sure.