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vor 19 Stunden schrieb BernardC:

especially in a context where they are limited by production capacity

Are Leica limited by production capacity? I have not heard so, and there are no waiting lists either, at least not for Leica M bodies.

 

vor 19 Stunden schrieb BernardC:

The last thing they want is to have reviewers call the EVF model a "poor man's Leica."

The SL3 is quite a bit cheaper than a M11, and I do not think the SL3 is "poor man's Leica" by any means. Don't forget that a future EVF-M will have to compete with existing EVF bodies, none of which is nearly as expensive as a M11.

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I do wonder how many posters here have actually used the (usually-dismissed) hybrid finder of the Fuji X-pro series? 

It’s an optical finder with a transparent overlay providing single framelines that move to accommodate parallax during focus, an inset off-sensor focus confirmation patch available (and repositionable) when manually focussing, and a full EVF view activated using a frame selector-style lever.

The introduction of the M11 provides for a “shutter-open” sensor for metering and thus also allows for off-sensor focus confirmation. Retaining an equivalent of the rangefinder cam would allow “dumb” M lenses to trigger selected focus aids (an Inset patch with the OVF or selected zoom area with the EVF) and the repurposed traditional frameline selector could function as the OVF/EVF switch?

 

 

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22 minutes ago, costa43 said:

I think some real world improvements to the manual focus with EVF experience is paramount to the long term success of an EVF M. If not now then it is only a matter of time before Leica have some kind of electronic communication between camera and lens. 

It was interesting that Leica used an optical 6-bit coding on 'M-digital compatible' lenses. Any new lenses would have to have a mechanical coupling (rf cam), 6-bit coding (existing/potential future rf-M cameras, and elecronic coding (EVF-M/future rf-M cameras). All crammed into, but not affecting/changing, the jewel like precision, mechanical lenses which we all like so much. This is a big ASK, and perhaps even too much of an ask to simply support a new EVF-M body with unknown sales potential. Just sayin'.

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Voigtlander already has this on their manual focus lenses for Nikon and Sony. It seems to work well and does not affect the experience from what I've seen. I would rather not have it as I prefer no electronics at all in the lenses but it seems like a natural evolution. 

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2 hours ago, costa43 said:

Voigtlander already has this on their manual focus lenses for Nikon and Sony. It seems to work well and does not affect the experience from what I've seen. I would rather not have it as I prefer no electronics at all in the lenses but it seems like a natural evolution. 

Then there would have 2 kinds of M lenses, MM (Mechanical M) and EM (Electronic M) lenses i guess... Unsure how the former would work on modern cameras and the latter on legacy ones. Would be the definite end of my love for M lenses, i fear, but i will be pushing up daisies when this fate happens hopefully. YMMV 😎

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19 minutes ago, lct said:

Then there would have 2 kinds of M lenses, MM (Mechanical M) and EM (Electronic M) lenses i guess... Unsure how the former would work on modern cameras and the latter on legacy ones. Would be the definite end of my love for M lenses, i fear, but i will be pushing up daisies when this fate happens hopefully. YMMV 😎

I don’t think the handling will change at all. It’s more like a 6 bit code on steriods. 

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13 minutes ago, costa43 said:

I don’t think the handling will change at all. It’s more like a 6 bit code on steriods. 

You mean with more coding pits? It is yet difficult to pen code some legacy lenses. I've been struggling to butcher a Summaron 35/2.8 recently, and i have a LTM Super-Angulon 21/4 to be coded right now, so i wonder how i would do with even more pits.

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5 hours ago, costa43 said:

My prediction is that the 35mm Noctilux will be released with this EVF M and it will be the first M lens with electronic coupling allowing some Nikon ZF style focus confirmation etc.

So Leica will make an EVF camera for the 1%, and then the first electrically coded lens will be a new Noctilux, made for the .001% of Leica users that can actually afford it. Yeah right....

Edited by charlesphoto99
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3 hours ago, NigelG said:

I do wonder how many posters here have actually used the (usually-dismissed) hybrid finder of the Fuji X-pro series? 

It’s an optical finder with a transparent overlay providing single framelines that move to accommodate parallax during focus, an inset off-sensor focus confirmation patch available (and repositionable) when manually focussing, and a full EVF view activated using a frame selector-style lever.

The introduction of the M11 provides for a “shutter-open” sensor for metering and thus also allows for off-sensor focus confirmation. Retaining an equivalent of the rangefinder cam would allow “dumb” M lenses to trigger selected focus aids (an Inset patch with the OVF or selected zoom area with the EVF) and the repurposed traditional frameline selector could function as the OVF/EVF switch?

 

 

I had an X-Pro 1 and didn't enjoy either the OVF or the EVF particularly.

Both are quite small and the OVF quite distorted also with not great parallax- correction in my view.

The OVF was so disappointing I never used it.

I would rather have either a first-class OVF or EVF rather than a compromised hybrid.

 

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1 hour ago, lct said:

Then there would have 2 kinds of M lenses, MM (Mechanical M) and EM (Electronic M) lenses i guess... Unsure how the former would work on modern cameras and the latter on legacy ones. Would be the definite end of my love for M lenses, i fear, but i will be pushing up daisies when this fate happens hopefully. YMMV 😎

I don't think this is likely (to put it mildly), so we have nothing to worry about!

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3 hours ago, wizard said:

Are Leica limited by production capacity? I have not heard so, and there are no waiting lists either, at least not for Leica M bodies.

 

The SL3 is quite a bit cheaper than a M11, and I do not think the SL3 is "poor man's Leica" by any means. Don't forget that a future EVF-M will have to compete with existing EVF bodies, none of which is nearly as expensive as a M11.

Not much of competition, I think. EVF camera users would miss so many features as to make the camera utterly unattractive. It would be aimed at existing M users with rangefinder difficulties.

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5 hours ago, pgk said:

Whilst the M shape is iconic, IMO that is all that an EVF-M will have going for it. I know from the multitude of preceding pages that some are prepared to pay highly for the form factor, but having used EVF cameras a great deal, often/mostly with manual focus (including Leica M), I still remain to be convinced that an EVF-M is a logical progression.

This is a fresh take on at least two fronts, and I think I'm in complete agreement with these observations.

Adressing the second first, it's a solid observation. Think: how many cameras with an EVF can anyone name that are primarily manual focus?

On mainstream EVF cameras the reliance is on autofocus, with manual focus (with various attempts at focus assistance) provided as an auxiliary function. Manual focus is there as a kind of fallback on these cameras, something to be used in particular contingencies. Sure, the EV works great on an SL, but so does the autofocus. The autofocus on an M is simply dreadful. 

On an M, the rangefinder is the primary focus mechanism and, again, an EVF is offered as an auxiliary method for use when called for. 

An EVF M would propose to offer the EVF as the primary focus method. Imaginative focus assists would be the only fallback present. There is no provision for autofocus. 

Functionally, the Visoflex 2 is a well thought out solution to the challenge of providing EVF auxiliary functionality for use when desired. The only downside (for folks who care about such things) is its physical appearance sitting on top of the camera. And that brings us to the second point...

Who, on this great green Earth, actually picks a camera based on its physical appearance?? 

It's not a fashion accessory. It is a functional tool, with functional, utilitarian add-ons designed to provide auxiliary capabilities to optimize that functionality under specific circumstances.

Sure, admire its design, but don't pose with it in front of a mirror to decide whether you like it. (Does this camera make me look fat?)

Get a cool pair of shades, maybe a hat.

Way more effective, and way cheaper. 

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What's the benefit of electronic coding? All it can do is tell the camera exactly what aperture is in use, rather than the camera making an (educated guess).

For electronics to be of real value, the lens would have to be able to be focussed wide open, and then stop down for shooting - requiring a motor in the lens - with added bulk - and enough battery power to operate it.

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6 minutes ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

 

Who, on this great green Earth, actually picks a camera based on its physical appearance?? 

It's not a fashion accessory. It is a functional tool, with functional, utilitarian add-ons designed to provide auxiliary capabilities to optimize that functionality under specific circumstances.

Sure, admire its design, but don't pose with it in front of a mirror to decide whether you like it. (Does this camera make me look fat?)

Who indeed?  Perhaps all those M4 owners and other potential Leica buyers who turned up their noses at the M5?

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On 8/28/2025 at 5:03 AM, lct said:

The strength of M lenses is... M lenses. I could not care less about SL lenses that cannot be used on an M-mount camera , and even if they could, i would not want such monster lenses on my M cameras. YMMV.

I've seen a lot of videos on the launch of the Hasselblad X2D2.  On one hand, I am intrigued, on the other, I'm thinking there is no way I would enjoy lugging that monstrosity around with me.   I moved from the Sony RX1 to the M11/Q3, and that was a big upgrade in size/weight for me.

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1 hour ago, charlesphoto99 said:

So Leica will make an EVF camera for the 1%, and then the first electrically coded lens will be a new Noctilux, made for the .001% of Leica users that can actually afford it. Yeah right....

What better way to sell a few copies than to give it this differentiator. Leica can then update current lenses and sell more copies of those too. Just a thought. Probably BS but time will tell. 

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4 hours ago, wizard said:

Are Leica limited by production capacity? I have not heard so, and there are no waiting lists either, at least not for Leica M bodies.

Demand is often cyclical for M bodies. It often takes 12-24 months after a new body generation is released before back orders are filled and there’s somewhat regular stock available in the sales channels. This is when Leica usually starts to release the mid-cycle refreshed “P” models and that gives another small boost for another 12 months. Then come niche variants such as the “D” models and special editions.

Depending on the development roadmap, there’s a life-extension update that gives the platform another 12-24 months before the next generation platform is released. For the M10 generation, it came in the form of the M10-R. I’m guessing the M11 EVF variant, currently being referred to as M11-V, is going to take the place of that update for the M11 generation.

The next logical core technology increment for the M system is to adopt a stacked or partially stacked sensor and add IBIS but that will drive up costs and Leica has to convince Sony to sell them such a sensor.

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49 minutes ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

It's not a fashion accessory. It is a functional tool, with functional, utilitarian add-ons designed to provide auxiliary capabilities to optimize that functionality under specific circumstances.

I agree with you.

But never forget that from 2000 to 2006, 33% of Leica Camera was owned by French fashion accessory maker Hermès. Who even sold some Leicas (mostly Leicasonic point-&-shoots) in its own "scarves & purses" stores. That did not go well - eventually Dr. Kaufmann had to buy out Hermès' shares to save Leica.

Nevertheless, the "male jewelry" market is always with us.

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Am 27.8.2025 um 18:53 schrieb charlesphoto99:

Same goes for the M: think about the size of the rangefinder module, and where it goes in the M body, and then also think about the size of the guts of the Visoflex 2. Does anybody really believe Leica could magically fit both in the M chassis at the same time without compromising either? 

At least not me. But I also don't care since I’m a mechanical rangfinder enthusiast. And for everything else I have a SL2-S as a backup. 😁

Edited by RF’sDelight
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