EVF M rumoured

[lct]

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5 minutes ago, pgk said:

A sony with an M adapter and M lens is not significantly bigger than an M camera and lens, and probably similar in weight (I have both but haven't weighed them). So the question is really about why I prefer to use the M? And the answer to me is absolutely clear: because I prefer the OVF and rangefinder focus.

As a Leica/Sony user, my answer is somewhat different as you might expect it : because i have to press a button on my Sony to use focus magnification when i just have to turn the focus ring of any M or LTM lens on the M11.

[lct]

1 hour ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

Don't forget adapters.

No adapter car communicate with the focus cams of an M (or LTM) lens.

[pgk]

9 minutes ago, lct said:

As a Leica/Sony user, my answer is somewhat different as you might expect it : because i have to press a button on my Sony to use focus magnification when i just have to turn the focus ring of any M or LTM lens on the M11.

Well if you are prepared to pay a vast amount to change this then that's your privilege should Leica bring such a camera to market. Personally I'm happy enough to press a button.

[jaapv]

46 minutes ago, lct said:

No adapter car communicate with the focus cams of an M (or LTM) lens.

But on an MEVF it would not need to use the focus cam; you will see the focus in the viewfinder from the AF feed in the sensor with a choice of focus aids. . Similar to an EVF camera with adapter. 

[lct]

10 minutes ago, jaapv said:

But on an MEVF it would not need to use the focus cam; you will see the focus in the viewfinder from the AF feed in the sensor with a choice of focus aids. . Similar to an EVF camera with adapter. 

Too slow. Mirorless user speaking. M-mount cameras are the only ones alowing to trigger focus magnification by simply turning the focus ring of M and LTM lenses.

[jdlaing]

1 minute ago, lct said:

Too slow. Mirorless user speaking. M-mount cameras are the only ones alowing to trigger focus magnification by simply turning the focus ring of M and LTM lenses.

L mount does that.

[lct]

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56 minutes ago, pgk said:

Well if you are prepared to pay a vast amount to change this then that's your privilege should Leica bring such a camera to market. Personally I'm happy enough to press a button.

I have press-button (or turn-dial) cameras like that (Sony, Sigma, digital CL) but auto-zoom is a feature i use too much to be satisfied with such compromise. YMMV.

[lct]

3 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

L mount does that.

Never seen that with M lenses on my digital CL and Sigma cameras. How does it work on your camera, if i may ask? Sounds impossible for lack of communication between the camera and the focus cam of M/LTM lenses but something may escape me.

[pedaes]

24 minutes ago, jaapv said:

But on an MEVF it would not need to use the focus cam; you will see the focus in the viewfinder from the AF feed in the sensor with a choice of focus aids. . Similar to an EVF camera with adapter. 

This links back to @pgk  post, who would pay a premium for such a camera? I am sure the product planning meetings inside Leica were fascinating and we all think we could have contributed. 
There is a significant article on the longevity and love of the rangefinder in this months LFI (a house journal of Leica) and it being the main reason people buy an M so thankfully this will likely remain a pure option. 

[jaapv]

24 minutes ago, lct said:

Too slow. Mirorless user speaking. M-mount cameras are the only ones alowing to trigger focus magnification by simply turning the focus ring of M and LTM lenses.

The MEVF may work the same as L mount and Leica adapter. 

[costa43]

I actually prefer pressing a button to zoom in. I dont enjoy losing sight of the scene I am focusing on. This is a key point for me. If there is a different but accurate way of giving me focus confirmation that allows me to see the scene as is, I would be somewhat interested.

[lct]

14 minutes ago, costa43 said:

I actually prefer pressing a button to zoom in. [...]

You can do it on the M11 too if you wish but you have the choice.

[lct]

22 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The MEVF may work the same as L mount and Leica adapter. 

Hopefully not. What is the point of using an M mount otherwise? AFAIC it would be a no no.

[DadDadDaddyo]

Just my personal take, but I find the Visoflex EVF to be a perfectly viable tool for those occasions when I wish for an EVF.

Sure, it would be nice if it had higher resolution and worked better under low light conditions (during which the added video gain makes for added noise), but these are technical limitations to the current version. I'm confident a next-generation Visoflex will be an improvement in all these aspects. 

What's more, one hopes, it would simply slide into the accessory slot on an existing M. That's certainly less onerous than having to replace the entire body simply because electronic viewfinder technology has improved. 

And, as I've said before, adding an EVF accessory to an RF body seems a heck of a lot simpler than adding a couple rangefinder accessory to an EVF camera.

Some kind of hybrid all-in-one solution could be successful if its functionality was well-matched to folks' expectations.

That said, for my purposes, would the addition of a hybrid finder to a new model provide sufficient inducement for me to trade in my M11 and M11M? If the new model was otherwise similar to existing models with the exception of the addition of the hybrid finder, I don't think so. 

For now, I'm happy enough simply to attach a Visoflex for those occasions when I want an EVF. That's what it's for. 

Edited August 28 by DadDadDaddyo

[costa43]

18 minutes ago, lct said:

You can do it on the M11 too if you wish but you have the choice.

Yes, I have live view set this way. I rarely use it but when I mount the 24mm, I may turn it on now and again. I just don’t find it that easy to nail critical focus when there is a lot of depth of field at play without having to punch in. My preference would be a more distinct notification given when critical focus is met at that point only. Not sure if this is at all possible but it would be very helpful to me. 

To be honest, I'm fine with just the rangefinder, it is my preference but this would be a fun option with some other non rangefinder lenses that I have or if I go wider or longer.

Edited August 28 by costa43

[jaapv]

Well, that is the reason that I always advocated an L mount with active adapter to make the camera more versatile But I think this is going around in circles. 

1 hour ago, lct said:

Hopefully not. What is the point of using an M mount otherwise? AFAIC it would be a no no.

 

[pgk]

1 hour ago, costa43 said:

Yes, I have live view set this way. I rarely use it but when I mount the 24mm, I may turn it on now and again. I just don’t find it that easy to nail critical focus when there is a lot of depth of field at play without having to punch in. My preference would be a more distinct notification given when critical focus is met at that point only. Not sure if this is at all possible but it would be very helpful to me. 

To be honest, I'm fine with just the rangefinder, it is my preference but this would be a fun option with some other non rangefinder lenses that I have or if I go wider or longer.

An 'independent of aperture' rangefinder (which is how the M focuses) is the best method for quickly and accurately focusing a wide-angle lens. It is one of the key strengths of the rf-M. But the rf-M is not so good with longer lenses as it quickly loses its precision because of the short rangefinder base length. Having used EVF and SLR cameras as well as Ms I can say that the M offers excellent wide-angle focus using the rangefinder and unlike EVF cameras can do so independent of the set aperture. Of course this does require good lenses with no aperture dependant focus shift ..... 

Whilst I can understand the desire by some for a well thought out EVF-M, there are actually some aspects of the ef-M which are functionally better and the OVF too has its advantages within its operational envelope.

There is of course no perfect camera which is fit for all purposes.

Edited August 28 by pgk

[charlesphoto99]

19 hours ago, JNK100 said:

How have you obtained Leica's customer profiles?

I haven't. Have you? Didn't think so. So right or wrong, we're both just postulating, so relax. 

[charlesphoto99]

1 hour ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

 

For now, I'm happy enough simply to attach a Visoflex for those occasions when I want an EVF. That's what it's for. 

Same, same. It's also easy to forget that for quick and limited use, one doesn't even need the add on EVF as there is the back screen. I've used this, for example, on airplanes where I need to lean over one of my kids to shoot out the window - the Visoflex would have been as useless as the OVF in this scenario. But really, for 90% of what I shoot the OVF and rf focus work just fine. But it's nice to have an option for those awkward places/lenses/etc. But looking through a video tunnel full time, and never seeing what's outside the frame lines, constantly having squiggly lines everywhere, or pop up magnification and missing the moment that's happening elsewhere in the frame, would just be a miserable experience - for me. 

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[JNK100]

No I haven't but you made a statement and I didn't.