evikne Posted July 27 Share #1901 Posted July 27 Advertisement (gone after registration) 41 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said: May be nothing? I guess there's something to it. There's no smoke without fire. But personally, I'm more excited about a future M12, or rather an M12-D, even though that's probably still a long way off. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 27 Posted July 27 Hi evikne, Take a look here EVF M rumoured. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted July 28 Share #1902 Posted July 28 6 hours ago, evikne said: I guess there's something to it. There's no smoke without fire. But personally, I'm more excited about a future M12, or rather an M12-D, even though that's probably still a long way off. I’ve seen plenty of fireless smoke over the years on this forum. Quite a few cases of smokeless fires as well, though. 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphlex Posted July 28 Share #1903 Posted July 28 (edited) 14 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said: I watched that video and wished I'd stuck to my rule that video info is for those who never learned to read and write. There is nothing in it that couldn't be guessed or predicted. 'Leaked specs' that include nothing specific, but possibilities described as rumours. Frankly this is just guess work with a hyper-excited voiceover. But it’s pretty slickly produced—slickly enough to look like advertising. In fact, it uses footage from a Leica promo on the M11-P, so…. Edited July 28 by graphlex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted July 28 Share #1904 Posted July 28 53 minutes ago, graphlex said: But it’s pretty slickly produced—slickly enough to look like advertising. In fact, it uses footage from a Leica promo on the M11-P, so…. Yes, they steal copyrighted footage. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander108 Posted July 28 Share #1905 Posted July 28 Knowing that these are all rumors. However, I'd like to share my 2Ct on this. I don't own an M of any kind nor do I own M lenses. However I feel very attracted to the size and how wonderful everything is built. I visited a friend on Saturday who owns an M6 and now added an M11 to his equipment. He even sent in a really old Leica lens to Wetzlar and they upgraded it to communicate with the M11 (EXIF data). All in all wonderful small and extremely capable material. Just love it. However, I started in the 1980ies with Minolta SLRs and had many Canon DSLR bodies (now I own an R5) and love them. But... too heavy, too big. I was amazed to see these small M lenses with f/1.4 which are still extremely small. I personally don't like the "Messsucher" as most of my shots are made using the EVF (or in case of my Q3 which I mainly use for Street Photography with the tilt screen). The "Messsucher" certainly works fine if you limit yourself with a few lenses that are covered with the frame. But I read many comments on how difficult that gets when you start working with <=21mm lenses or >=90mm lenses. Then you have to use the display and I need to wear my reading glasses. I will wait for an M12 with EVF (and ideally IBIS) or an M11-V that may use the same EVF as my Q3. If Leica would keep the Messsucher in some cameras and equip the EVF in others they would only add potential new customers and lose none. For me the camera is the tool to take the pictures that I like. It must support me in my photography. AF is not as important to me. I love the manual dials, the aperture ring, the shutter speed dial on my Q3. The Visoflex 2 seems is a compromise for me that I would not want to go with as it would be constantly attached to the camera and ruining the excellent overall design. Just my thoughts. So, I hope Leica will present an M with EVF. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted July 28 Share #1906 Posted July 28 5 hours ago, Alexander108 said: The "Messsucher" certainly works fine if you limit yourself with a few lenses that are covered with the frame. But I read many comments on how difficult that gets when you start working with <=21mm lenses or >=90mm lenses. Then you have to use the display and I need to wear my reading glasses. All internet bullshit. I've taken plenty of great photos with 135, 90, 18, 24mm lenses over the years and have never once used the screen or a visoflex. Face it, the M just isn't for some people, which is fine. But stop with the limiting 'boxes.' Think outside of them and you'll be amazed what an M can accomplish. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbyshire Man Posted July 28 Share #1907 Posted July 28 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don't find using my 21mm with the OVF an issue at all. It's so wide I know I'm going to get whatever is at the edge of the frame in comfortably. Maybe it's as I'm a lifelong monochrome addict that I have always expected to crop and tidy my images, indeed, that is part of the skill! Similarly I don't have issues with 90mm either. The *only* problem I do have is that if I change ISO I get a momentary acknowledgment in the LED, if I change manual exposure I don't, as a reading glasses reader that drives me batshit crazy, it's easily totally fixable and rubbish design! I don't want a whole new EVF for that, just a single line of code copied from the ISO section to the exposure section. I'd imagine it would take 60 seconds to do and test. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted July 28 Share #1908 Posted July 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, Derbyshire Man said: I don't find using my 21mm with the OVF an issue at all. It's so wide I know I'm going to get whatever is at the edge of the frame in comfortably. Maybe it's as I'm a lifelong monochrome addict that I have always expected to crop and tidy my images, indeed, that is part of the skill! Similarly I don't have issues with 90mm either. The *only* problem I do have is that if I change ISO I get a momentary acknowledgment in the LED, if I change manual exposure I don't, as a reading glasses reader that drives me batshit crazy, it's easily totally fixable and rubbish design! I don't want a whole new EVF for that, just a single line of code copied from the ISO section to the exposure section. I'd imagine it would take 60 seconds to do and test. Yeah, I've always thought there's so much more Leica could do with the legacy M6/7 LED readout. Options for showing shutter speed, iso, etc. either in the middle of the arrows, or off to one side. Or even at the top. Make it all turn on and off-able via the function button. Edited July 28 by charlesphoto99 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander108 Posted July 28 Share #1909 Posted July 28 (edited) vor 1 Stunde schrieb charlesphoto99: All internet bullshit. That is a strong opinion which I certainly accept. When I started my career in the mid 1980ies I used Microsoft Word. The new thing was "WYSIWYG" What you see is what you get. Instead of having a rather crude view at the document see the font sizes, intents, and the like. See the printout on your computer screen. Here's how word processing worked in 1985. Note my bookmark which I found in the book. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I would personally love to see this WYSIWYG experience creeping in the M system. With the clumsy Visoflex 2 it's already there. But I believe there would be nothing wrong with having a different experience for different people. The ones who pursue the pure doctrine would still have the Messsucher option. But folks like me who come from a different world could use the M in a way that is more appealing to them, say a pragmatic approach. I don't see why this should be an issue. Unless you see a threat to the Holy-M-Grail. What I'd love about an M11-V would be the aesthetics, the small size of the body and lenses, the wonderful haptic of these beautifully engineered lenses with a more modern approach. Things have changed, change and will change. Edited July 28 by Alexander108 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I would personally love to see this WYSIWYG experience creeping in the M system. With the clumsy Visoflex 2 it's already there. But I believe there would be nothing wrong with having a different experience for different people. The ones who pursue the pure doctrine would still have the Messsucher option. But folks like me who come from a different world could use the M in a way that is more appealing to them, say a pragmatic approach. I don't see why this should be an issue. Unless you see a threat to the Holy-M-Grail. What I'd love about an M11-V would be the aesthetics, the small size of the body and lenses, the wonderful haptic of these beautifully engineered lenses with a more modern approach. Things have changed, change and will change. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/419143-evf-m-rumoured/?do=findComment&comment=5840008'>More sharing options...
SrMi Posted July 28 Share #1910 Posted July 28 7 hours ago, Alexander108 said: But I read many comments on how difficult that gets when you start working with <=21mm lenses or >=90mm lenses. Then you have to use the display and I need to wear my reading glasses. I regularly use an external OVF when shooting wider than 35mm. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted July 28 Share #1911 Posted July 28 12 minutes ago, Alexander108 said: I would personally love to see this WYSIWYG experience creeping in the M system. I have never seen a camera that provides in the EVF an image that corresponds to what I will get. The shadows lack contrast, the colors are off, and various types of data are overlaid, blocking the view of the scene (without the data, why use an EVF at all?). There is a reason why one should never evaluate an image based solely on what is shown on an LCD. With OVF, you see what you are photographing. 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander108 Posted July 28 Share #1912 Posted July 28 vor 1 Minute schrieb SrMi: I have never seen a camera that provides in the EVF an image that corresponds to what I will get. The shadows lack contrast, the colors are off, and various types of data are overlaid, blocking the view of the scene (without the data, why use an EVF at all?). There is a reason why one should never evaluate an image based solely on what is shown on an LCD. With OVF, you see what you are photographing. Got it. I surrender 🤣 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted July 28 Share #1913 Posted July 28 27 minutes ago, SrMi said: With OVF, you see what you are photographing. I have photographed with the lens cap on. The black image I got was not what I saw. 🤣 16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbyshire Man Posted July 28 Share #1914 Posted July 28 1 hour ago, charlesphoto99 said: Yeah, I've always thought there's so much more Leica could do with the legacy M6/7 LED readout. Options for showing shutter speed, iso, etc. either in the middle of the arrows, or off to one side. Or even at the top. Make it all turn on and off-able via the function button. They can just do the same as with ISO, as you change it the arrows/dot update and then it shows you the value for 1.5s or so. Same could be done with exposure, arrows/dot when changing, 1.5s display just to show you're not at 1/4 of a second or something, before returning back to the arrow/dot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 28 Share #1915 Posted July 28 53 minutes ago, SrMi said: (without the data, why use an EVF at all?) Because you need a viewfinder? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted July 28 Share #1916 Posted July 28 13 minutes ago, jaapv said: Because you need a viewfinder? OVF is also a viewfinder (in the context of shooting with M). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 28 Share #1917 Posted July 28 1 hour ago, Alexander108 said: Got it. I surrender 🤣 Please do not i don't want to be alone here 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 28 Share #1918 Posted July 28 True, but then there is no switching on and off of of information. Besides, you might be shooting a 560 mm lens 🙃 2 minutes ago, SrMi said: OVF is also a viewfinder (in the context of shooting with M). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgeenen Posted July 28 Share #1919 Posted July 28 vor einer Stunde schrieb Alexander108: When I started my career in the mid 1980ies I used Microsoft Word. And although Word was very universally capable and flexible, WYSIWYG made it slow. I started with Wordstar, no WYSIWYG, mysterious „dot“ commands, but astonishing lightweight and fast. I was able to produce more quality contents in less time than with Word - but I couldn’t do leaflets or fancy layouts with it. and that is my „fear“: an EVF Leica will be a totally different tool than the OVF Leica. From all past experiences with manual lenses on EVF cameras I am lacking the confidence that an EVF Leica will be a close sibling to an M (more like a SL in a different shape). I don’t know if it is that what I want… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander108 Posted July 28 Share #1920 Posted July 28 vor 8 Minuten schrieb jgeenen: and that is my „fear“: an EVF Leica will be a totally different tool than the OVF Leica. Yes it will. So what? From all I sense here, no happy Messsucher / OVF enthusiast would bother buying an M11-V. Is there something from Leica proofing that an EVF in an M11 could potentially work? My Q3 gives me a great experience with its EVF. But I promised to shut up, so please ignore my ignorant comment 🤣 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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