EVF M rumoured

[hdmesa]

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I wonder if an M11-V will still have the tight tolerances to allow properly calibrated M lenses to hit exact infinity focus at the infinity hard stop of the lens. It would be unfortunate if the M11-V allows focusing slightly past infinity similar to how most M adapters on non-M cameras allow.

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[frankchn]

On 4/26/2025 at 1:50 PM, hdmesa said:

I wonder if an M11-V will still have the tight tolerances to allow properly calibrated M lenses to hit exact infinity focus at the infinity hard stop of the lens. It would be unfortunate if the M11-V allows focusing slightly past infinity similar to how most M adapters on non-M cameras allow.

It should work the same as every other M camera — just with no focus tab and always-on EVF. 

In any case, the official M-to-L adapter is well calibrated for my M lenses on my SL3, so I think the problem with non-Leica adapters is that they are just not built to the same tolerance and they know it. If you have to err one way or the other, I would prefer focusing past infinity to not being able to reach infinity at all.

Edited April 29 by frankchn

[lct]

Not sure to see the problem. If the M11-V is an M-mount camera it won't need any adapter.

[jdlaing]

On 4/26/2025 at 3:50 PM, hdmesa said:

I wonder if an M11-V will still have the tight tolerances to allow properly calibrated M lenses to hit exact infinity focus at the infinity hard stop of the lens. It would be unfortunate if the M11-V allows focusing slightly past infinity similar to how most M adapters on non-M cameras allow.

That doesn’t work well with temperature conversion on the helicoid. If the tolerance was too tight the lens might not focus to infinity at the hard stop. I’d rather have the tolerance.

[jaapv]

I think that this effect is imperceptible with the size of M lenses. Well, maybe on a Noctilux. 

[hdmesa]

21 hours ago, frankchn said:

It should work the same as every other M camera — just with no focus tab and always-on EVF. 

In any case, the official M-to-L adapter is well calibrated for my M lenses on my SL3, so I think the problem with non-Leica adapters is that they are just not built to the same tolerance and they know it. If you have to err one way or the other, I would prefer focusing past infinity to not being able to reach infinity at all.

I’ve had three Leica M Adapter L, and only one of them was the correct tolerance for infinity focus at the hard stop of the lens. 

12 hours ago, jdlaing said:

That doesn’t work well with temperature conversion on the helicoid. If the tolerance was too tight the lens might not focus to infinity at the hard stop. I’d rather have the tolerance.

Temperature seems to have zero effect on M lenses with regard to infinity focus. You’re thinking of autofocus lenses. M lenses are designed to hit infinity focus at the hard stop on an M body. If M lenses were temperature affected, we’d have reports all over this forum with infinity focus issues. 

[lct]

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59 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

[...] I’ve had three Leica M Adapter L, and only one of them was the correct tolerance for infinity focus at the hard stop of the lens [...]

Are you suggesting the EVF M would be an L-mount camera needing such an adapter? Just curious.

[hdmesa]

3 hours ago, lct said:

Are you suggesting the EVF M would be an L-mount camera needing such an adapter? Just curious.

Not at all. My original concern was that they keep the M mount and keep it functioning like the M mount not like an AF mount that focuses past infinity.

Edited April 30 by hdmesa

[jdlaing]

11 hours ago, hdmesa said:

I’ve had three Leica M Adapter L, and only one of them was the correct tolerance for infinity focus at the hard stop of the lens. 

Temperature seems to have zero effect on M lenses with regard to infinity focus. You’re thinking of autofocus lenses. M lenses are designed to hit infinity focus at the hard stop on an M body. If M lenses were temperature affected, we’d have reports all over this forum with infinity focus issues. 

There has been discussions here for years about infinity focus and the hard stop. Leica originally designed their different parts of the focus mechanism with different metals to try and counteract it.

---

>But actually, what I really objected to, was that the opinion is that long
>lenses focus past infinity just because of the temperature drift. This is
>not true. They focus past infinity so that a photographer, knowing the
>proper focusing process, can indeed critically focus on very distant
>objects with those very long lenses.

This is not opinion, but fact. All long telephotos can be racked past the
'normal temperature infinity' position. All companies do this. Ask them.

In the past, some companies have not provided enough distance past the
normal infinity point. I've shot at -50 degrees celsius, and I've shot at
45 above (more when the sun hit lens). The differences in focus settings
over this range of temperatures can be substantial. I've used telephotos
(non-flourite, one mirror and one refractor) that didn't have enough 'past
infinity' to focus on distant objects at very cold temperatures. That
raised my personal temperature, but I didn't get the picture.

So that is why camera companies design long lenses with spare helicoids
'past infinity', but practically speaking, you are correct. That's the way
I focus too. Of course, if the temperature thing didn't happen, one
infinity point could be built in, and once adjusted, you could focus on
distant objects (depending on distance and actual focal length) just by
setting the lens at the infinity mark.

[jaapv]

Exactly!! And adapters on M cameras are designed to adapt to long lenses, amongst other things...

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, jdlaing said:

There has been discussions here for years about infinity focus and the hard stop. Leica originally designed their different parts of the focus mechanism with different metals to try and counteract it.

---

>But actually, what I really objected to, was that the opinion is that long
>lenses focus past infinity just because of the temperature drift. This is
>not true. They focus past infinity so that a photographer, knowing the
>proper focusing process, can indeed critically focus on very distant
>objects with those very long lenses.

This is not opinion, but fact. All long telephotos can be racked past the
'normal temperature infinity' position. All companies do this. Ask them.

In the past, some companies have not provided enough distance past the
normal infinity point. I've shot at -50 degrees celsius, and I've shot at
45 above (more when the sun hit lens). The differences in focus settings
over this range of temperatures can be substantial. I've used telephotos
(non-flourite, one mirror and one refractor) that didn't have enough 'past
infinity' to focus on distant objects at very cold temperatures. That
raised my personal temperature, but I didn't get the picture.

So that is why camera companies design long lenses with spare helicoids
'past infinity', but practically speaking, you are correct. That's the way
I focus too. Of course, if the temperature thing didn't happen, one
infinity point could be built in, and once adjusted, you could focus on
distant objects (depending on distance and actual focal length) just by
setting the lens at the infinity mark.

I can’t speak to the history of it, just that my M lenses from 21mm through 75mm have always hit perfect infinity focus at the hard stop in both below freezing and at near 100F. That includes Voigtlander lenses in addition to Leica. If that changes at 90mm and up, I have no experience with that. 

[jaapv]

We are talking 200-1200 mm

[jdlaing]

3 hours ago, jaapv said:

We are talking 200-1200 mm

And 135

[algrove]

I have 2 M-L adapters and they work as designed with no issues.

[Elliot Harper]

why don't they just call it an SL with rangerfinder view?

Then everyone will be happy.

[SrMi]

4 minutes ago, Elliot Harper said:

why don't they just call it an SL with rangerfinder view?

Then everyone will be happy.

Because we do not want AF, L-mount body.

[kiwidad]

On 4/30/2025 at 12:37 AM, hdmesa said:

Not at all. My original concern was that they keep the M mount and keep it functioning like the M mount not like an AF mount that focuses past infinity.

I can’t say I ever owned an af lens that focused past infinity but I have owned Leica lenses that never made it infinity!

[hdmesa]

9 hours ago, kiwidad said:

I can’t say I ever owned an af lens that focused past infinity...

All AF lenses can focus past infinity when manually focusing. 

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[dkmoore]

M cameras broke the $10k USD mark. Kinda silly and dissapointing. I will prob still buy them but want to complain about it.