Guest Posted April 2 Share #1301 Posted April 2 Advertisement (gone after registration) 2 minutes ago, jaapv said: I use PC on the SL2S and will try out whether it behaves the same; Should work in ACR as well, I suppose. There's some info here, but it hasn't been updated since the M10 https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/camera-raw/using/leica-perspective-control.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 2 Posted April 2 Hi Guest, Take a look here EVF M rumoured. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Markey Posted April 2 Share #1302 Posted April 2 1 hour ago, pgk said: I have to admit that the concept of a camera featuring all the bells and whistle associated with the current crop of high end digital cameras (video, IBIS, etc.) but hobbled with manual focus and an M mount is a rather bizarre one to me too. The word conradictory comes to mind. Its a bit like uprating a car with more powerful engine, adding a turbo, uprating suspension, and more, but then insisting that it retains an ancient three speed manual gearbox. Entertaining? Well yes, as is proven by the length of this thread.😆 Exactly . Well put. A "dogs dinner" in other words . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaflex Posted April 2 Share #1303 Posted April 2 vor 5 Stunden schrieb SrMi: The Leica monitoring of camera position is likely done by the same sensors that are used to show the leveling information in all cameras. IBIS does not use those sensors as it does not care about difference to leveled position, which is important for perspective correction. That‘s exactly what the gyro sensor is for. It‘s just a matter of precision and the number of axis that are messured if you are able to present the data for a pitch and roll overlay graphic or crop and straighten the image. You can do different things with this data: trying to hold the position when the shutter is pressed. Control the perspektive or to level the horizon like Leicas cooperation partner Insta360 with their „flowstate“ stabilization. But no one outside Leica knows if this has anything to do with the rumored M11-V … Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted April 2 Share #1304 Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Leicaflex said: That‘s exactly what the gyro sensor is for. It‘s just a matter of precision and the number of axis that are messured if you are able to present the data for a pitch and roll overlay graphic or crop and straighten the image. You can do different things with this data: trying to hold the position when the shutter is pressed. Control the perspektive or to level the horizon like Leicas cooperation partner Insta360 with their „flowstate“ stabilization. But no one outside Leica knows if this has anything to do with the rumored M11-V … Gyro sensors measure angular velocity not angular position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2 Share #1305 Posted April 2 29 minutes ago, SrMi said: Gyro sensors measure angular velocity not angular position. Correct, the devices that are actually used typically combine a gyro, magnetometer and accelerometer, or combination thereof. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted April 2 Share #1306 Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Corius said: Correct, the devices that are actually used typically combine a gyro, magnetometer and accelerometer, or combination thereof. This means that it cannot be used for perspective correction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2 Share #1307 Posted April 2 Advertisement (gone after registration) 7 minutes ago, SrMi said: This means that it cannot be used for perspective correction. I'm guessing that for perspective correction you only need a tilt sensor, but this is achievable by the use of the combined devices I mentioned above. Here is some info on how it all works. https://www.analog.com/en/resources/technical-articles/the-five-motion-senses.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted April 2 Share #1308 Posted April 2 Wonder if Leica will ever issue an M with featureless features? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted April 2 Share #1309 Posted April 2 4 minutes ago, algrove said: Wonder if Leica will ever issue an M with featureless features? That would be the best M ever! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 2 Share #1310 Posted April 2 8 hours ago, Corius said: I'm guessing that for perspective correction you only need a tilt sensor, but this is achievable by the use of the combined devices I mentioned above. Here is some info on how it all works. https://www.analog.com/en/resources/technical-articles/the-five-motion-senses.html I see nothing about cameras there - It all sounds applicable to industrial use. it is clear from literature that the sensor only moves in the X and Y axis and rotates. It does not tilt. I seriously doubt whether Leica will ever put 5-axis stabilization in an M- if at all. Simply no space for it. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/419143-evf-m-rumoured/?do=findComment&comment=5780639'>More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2 Share #1311 Posted April 2 22 minutes ago, jaapv said: I see nothing about cameras there - It all sounds applicable to industrial use. it is clear from literature that the sensor only moves in the X and Y axis and rotates. It does not tilt. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Oh dear, my reply was regarding a question about Perspective Control, not IBIS. Also, these types of sensors are used in mobile phones and other similar applications. perhaps you missed the first paragraph. " Though MEMS (microelectromechanical systems) technology has been on the job for about two decades in airbag deployment and automotive pressure sensors, it took the motion-sensing user interfaces featured in the Nintendo® Wii® and the Apple® iPhone® to catapult broad awareness of what inertial sensors can do. " Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 2 Share #1312 Posted April 2 Well, I do not see how PC could work with a moving sensor - just think of the distances and angles needed - I think that it is a pure digital manipulation based on position sensors- borne out by the fact that it sends an untouched DNG (with instructions) and applies it to the JPG in-camera. That would not be possible were it a mechanical thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2 Share #1313 Posted April 2 2 minutes ago, jaapv said: Well, I do not see how PC could work with a moving sensor - just think of the distances and angles needed - I think that it is a pure digital manipulation based on position sensors- borne out by the fact that it sends an untouched DNG (with instructions) and applies it to the JPG in-camera. That would not be possible were it a mechanical thing. They are tiny solid state devices not mechanical devices in the traditional sense. Please see https://www.mems-exchange.org/MEMS/what-is.html To give you an idea of size here is an extract from the first paragraph of the above doc. " The critical physical dimensions of MEMS devices can vary from well below one micron on the lower end of the dimensional spectrum, all the way to several millimeters. " Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2 Share #1314 Posted April 2 And here's a Chat GPT description of how they are used for IBIS, including a reference to Nikon. " Yes, IBIS (In-Body Image Stabilization) systems, often found in cameras and lenses, do utilize MEMS (Micro-Electro-Mechanical Systems) technology for their operation, specifically in the form of MEMS-based accelerometers and gyroscopes. Here's a more detailed explanation: What is IBIS? IBIS is a camera stabilization system that compensates for camera shake by moving the sensor or lens to counteract unwanted motion. How MEMS Sensors are Used: Accelerometers and Gyroscopes: IBIS systems use MEMS-based accelerometers to detect linear acceleration (movement in a straight line) and gyroscopes to detect angular acceleration (rotation). Motion Detection: These sensors continuously monitor the camera's movement, providing real-time data about shake and vibrations. Stabilization: Based on the data from the MEMS sensors, the IBIS system then activates actuators (usually small motors) to move the sensor or lens, effectively stabilizing the image. Benefits of MEMS in IBIS: Compact Size and Low Power: MEMS sensors are incredibly small and consume very little power, making them ideal for use in cameras and lenses. High Accuracy: MEMS sensors offer high accuracy in detecting motion, ensuring precise stabilization. Versatility: MEMS sensors can be used to detect a wide range of motions, including linear and angular movements, making them suitable for various IBIS applications. Example: Nikon's IBIS system, for example, utilizes MEMS sensors to detect and compensate for shake in five axes: X, Y, pitch, yaw, and roll. " Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 2 Share #1315 Posted April 2 I don’t trust anything that ChatGPT spouts. Sorry. I regard AI generated stuff as highly suspicious. To start with IBIS does not move a lens as this particular bit of nonsense tells us. And yes, I said that PC uses minisensor input to do a digital manipulation and thus has nothing to do with IBiS which is a physical shift of the sensor. And this “ authority “ does not even know the difference between OIS and IBIS. And no, OIS does not move lenses, it moves a lens element or a lens group. Five Axis IBIS does not originate from Nikon, but from Olympus. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/419143-evf-m-rumoured/?do=findComment&comment=5780651'>More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted April 2 Share #1316 Posted April 2 Every time I read an answer from ChatGPT or Gemini, I realise what it is like to be mansplained to. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DadDadDaddyo Posted April 2 Share #1317 Posted April 2 Let's see, uhhhm, the angle of the dangle, times the curvature of the Earth, plus the square of the hair, to the power of the flower....uhhh.... What was the question again? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
T25UFO Posted April 2 Share #1318 Posted April 2 It's quite amusing how this thread has veered off into so many unrelated topics because all the speculation about the EVF M or Leica M-V has fizzled out. I wonder how many other topics we need to keep the thread alive until May 3rd? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted April 2 Share #1319 Posted April 2 (edited) I am just wondering what the US price would be before local taxes for any new M in May 2025? M's have just gotten very expensive just like new Phase One items became. Edited April 2 by algrove Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted April 2 Share #1320 Posted April 2 1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said: Every time I read an answer from ChatGPT or Gemini, I realise what it is like to be mansplained to. Never heard of that word, but then I try to selfexplain things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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