EVF M rumoured

[Dr. G]

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On 2/9/2025 at 7:37 PM, gotium said:

There are better ways of doing EVF manual focus than what Sony does - Panasonic has a little square that zooms for focus, while the rest of the screen stays at 1:1 for composition, for example, and Nikon has focus confirmation without needing to zoom. I'm sure there's some way of making it work as well as a rangefinder - which has all sorts of limitations. 

I’ve been an SL shooter since the beginning, using APO Summicron SL lenses and the 50 Lux SL, and have had almost every Q variant.  I recently picked up the Nikon zf only for use with the Voigtlander Norton 50 f/1 and 40 f/1.2.   I’ve tried these lenses on my SL2-S and SL3 in the past and my hit rate for critical focus was fairly low.  In fact, the SL3 zoom function, for some reason, doesn’t have the clarity that my SL2-S did - so it’s even more difficult to get good focus on an eye at really fast apertures.  With the zf manual focus confirmation with eye detect, it has become one of my favorite manual shooting experiences.  If Leica currently had a M camera with an EVF and a similar focus confirmation system available already I would have bought it without a second thought.  
 

But that also makes me wonder if Leica did implement such manual focus aids in an EVF M camera, would they make it exclusive to that body in order to get some SL and Q users to purchase another camera for that experience?

Edited February 14 by Dr. G

[lct]

3 hours ago, Chris W said:

There are multiple cameras that can use M lenses. I used mine with a Sigma FP for years.

So did i (Sony a7s1 mod, a7r2 mod, Sigma FPL), those cameras have their merits and i even kept two of them pending the launch of a possible EVF-M, but they have the same flaws as SL cameras except the size: adapter unwanted for M lenses, sensor not optimized to work best with them, lack of mechanical link with them, no auto zoom capabilities...

[jgeenen]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb lct:

There is no reason why people who prefer M-mount lenses should be forced to use an RF rather than an EVF to take photos with them.

From the lens point of view this is correct without doubt. On the other hand, EVF style shooting is different from RF shooting, simply because EVF blurs everything that is out of focus. And that distinguishes for me M photography from anything else. 

[Tseg]

4 hours ago, costa43 said:

On the flip side It may help with sales of the recent closer focusing lenses. More may be tempted to upgrade/purchase if they can be used natively without Visoflex.

EVF with Optical Visoflex III. Bingo!
 

 Just kidding.

[gbpost]

vor 38 Minuten schrieb Dr. G:

 With the zf manual focus confirmation with eye detect, it has become one of my favorite manual shooting experiences.  If Leica currently had a M camera with an EVF and a similar focus confirmation system available already I would have bought it without a second thought.  

From my knowledge only Nikon has this feature. I am quite convinced that it is patented for Nikon or Nikon has the exclusive right to use this invention. So we will see it in cameras from other brands most probobly not before the patent expires in about 15 to 20 years.

We may never see perspective control in a Nikon on the other hand because Leica Camera AG filed this as a patent in DE102020126407A1 and EP4193588A1. However this patent has not yet been granted as far as I know.

[Chris W]

49 minutes ago, lct said:

adapter unwanted for M lenses, sensor not optimized to work best with them, lack of mechanical link with them, no auto zoom capabilities...

The adapter is usually thin, tiny. My M lens images on the FP were superb. I've read the SL series IS suited to M lenses. You'd have to be a very serious pixel peeper to see any flaws in adapted M lens photographs. There is no 'auto zoom' on an M10.

[Chris W]

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3 hours ago, Markey said:

I think that the M may well go the way of the Barnack models.

They are just taking a more considered approach this time .

Staffing and manufacturing costs are at an all time high and if they want to stay in business they need to take a hard look at sales.

 

In the 1980's hardly anyone was shooting with an M6. It was wall to wall Nikon and Canon.

I think since the internet people have really discovered the M and even Leica in general.

I think they took a look at their future a few years ago and launched the Q, then entered the mirrorless market with the SL.

I'm sure they sell way more Q's (1, 2 or 3) than they've ever sold M's. Between the Q and SL series they are making a lot more money than they ever would with an M.

 

[fisheess]

On 2/8/2025 at 8:26 PM, SrMi said:

A hybrid viewfinder is not yet good enough to replace the M optical rangefinder.

hopefull it will. The place for the current framelines would be perfect for placing the oled screen of the hybrid viewfinder

[algrove]

The first Leica try could be putting the Viso 2 into an M sized camera before they venture down unknown and more expensive paths.

Since Leica has always used the term Viso with M cameras, it could be called the V or MV.

[lct]

1 hour ago, jgeenen said:

From the lens point of view this is correct without doubt. On the other hand, EVF style shooting is different from RF shooting, simply because EVF blurs everything that is out of focus. And that distinguishes for me M photography from anything else. 

Matter of taste and experience, i always had an M and a (d)SLR since the seventies personally.

[Smudgerer]

2 hours ago, Dr. G said:

I’ve been an SL shooter since the beginning, using APO Summicron SL lenses and the 50 Lux SL, and have had almost every Q variant.  I recently picked up the Nikon zf only for use with the Voigtlander Norton 50 f/1 and 40 f/1.2.   I’ve tried these lenses on my SL2-S and SL3 in the past and my hit rate for critical focus was fairly low.  In fact, the SL3 zoom function, for some reason, doesn’t have the clarity that my SL2-S did - so it’s even more difficult to get good focus on an eye at really fast apertures.  With the zf manual focus confirmation with eye detect, it has become one of my favorite manual shooting experiences.  If Leica currently had a M camera with an EVF and a similar focus confirmation system available already I would have bought it without a second thought.  
 

But that also makes me wonder if Leica did implement such manual focus aids in an EVF M camera, would they make it exclusive to that body in order to get some SL and Q users to purchase another camera for that experience?

Excuse my ignorance, but what is " the zf manual focus confirmation with eye detect......" on the Nikon? Is it as it used to be in the film F4/5/6's a dot of a green light that illuminates when a chosen segment is in focus?...........If so, yes that would be a very handy feature to have in a prospective EV-M, even a SL too I would guess.

[evikne]

If the EVF M is successful, I think all digital M's in the future (not in the immediate future though) will have an EVF. The rangefinder will only be found in the film M's. I think this is a natural evolution of the M system.

[Lee S]

Thinking about the EVF, how good can they actually make the EVF within the size constraints of an M Body?

Lots of people complain about the A7C variant EVF’s with its x 0.7 magnification and 2.36M dot resolution.

The Visoflex 2 is 3.7dot resolution and people still say that’s not enough, unsure in magnification. 

[lct]

11 minutes ago, Lee S said:

The Visoflex 2 is 3.7dot resolution and people still say that’s not enough [...]

I would not bet on more resolution than the V2's for the first EVF-M,if any, but i have no info about that.

[Markey]

3 hours ago, Chris W said:

In the 1980's hardly anyone was shooting with an M6. It was wall to wall Nikon and Canon.

I think since the internet people have really discovered the M and even Leica in general.

I think they took a look at their future a few years ago and launched the Q, then entered the mirrorless market with the SL.

I'm sure they sell way more Q's (1, 2 or 3) than they've ever sold M's. Between the Q and SL series they are making a lot more money than they ever would with an M.

 

They`re caught between a rock and a hard place with the M .

Alter it any more and it ceases to be an M (so they lose that market) but it can never be as versatile as the new cameras because of its inherent design constraints .

It will be interesting to see what does eventually happen.

[MRJohn]

4 hours ago, Dr. G said:

I’ve been an SL shooter since the beginning, using APO Summicron SL lenses and the 50 Lux SL, and have had almost every Q variant.  I recently picked up the Nikon zf only for use with the Voigtlander Norton 50 f/1 and 40 f/1.2.   I’ve tried these lenses on my SL2-S and SL3 in the past and my hit rate for critical focus was fairly low.  In fact, the SL3 zoom function, for some reason, doesn’t have the clarity that my SL2-S did - so it’s even more difficult to get good focus on an eye at really fast apertures.  With the zf manual focus confirmation with eye detect, it has become one of my favorite manual shooting experiences.  If Leica currently had a M camera with an EVF and a similar focus confirmation system available already I would have bought it without a second thought.  
 

But that also makes me wonder if Leica did implement such manual focus aids in an EVF M camera, would they make it exclusive to that body in order to get some SL and Q users to purchase another camera for that experience?

Would be great to have manual focus eye detect for the SL3/SL3-S when using M or R lenses. In the interim it might teach Leica how such a feature would work on an M EVF.

[Steve Ash]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb evikne:

If the EVF M is successful, I think all digital M's in the future (not in the immediate future though) will have an EVF. The rangefinder will only be found in the film M's. I think this is a natural evolution of the M system.

I cannot see anything natural in that logic. Natural is that the market will decide.

 

Edited February 14 by Steve Ash

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, evikne said:

If the EVF M is successful, I think all digital M's in the future (not in the immediate future though) will have an EVF. The rangefinder will only be found in the film M's. I think this is a natural evolution of the M system.

Some may buy the M for the lenses, though they can also use them with adapters on non-M cameras. I assume that most buy the M because of the rangefinder. If that is the case, a speculated EVF M could replace the real M.

[pgk]

Its interesting that the only other M mount digital camera (Pixii) is also a rangefinder. It could so easily have been an EVF, or could it?

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[3D-Kraft.com]

Am 13.2.2025 um 15:10 schrieb Smogg:

Well-known professionals do not use them, but photos taken at f1.0 look professional in the eyes of an inexperienced viewer. That's why they are popular. I bought such a lens, blurred the background into dust and showed my friends how cool I am😂

Another silly prejudice. The "Noctilux wide open" thread shows enough examples - also, but not only - from professionals where it is more than just an effect lens. Usually, however, on an SL, because an M without an EVF is simply overwhelmed by it.