Steadimann Posted February 5 Share #41 Posted February 5 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, JNK100 said: Particularly with a name like 'Steadimann'!!😂 Well, ex professional habbit 😁 but M has to stay M 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 5 Posted February 5 Hi Steadimann, Take a look here Why the M needs IBIS. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Pelu2010 Posted February 5 Share #42 Posted February 5 3 hours ago, _leicaguru said: Yea personally I hardly ever shoot slower than 125s. There's no point in me shooting at less than 1/250th because I'm shooting people moving and I usually want to freeze their motion 1/500s if I'm also moving and 1/1000s if I'm shooting animals especially birds. I absolutely have 0 need for slow shutter speeds unless I want to see the motion blur. Also small imperfections just make the picture when you're shooting a rangefinder. It adds to the charm of it. I don't know why some M shooters here want to pursue absolute perfection. The M rangefinders were never about that. So what if a photo has a bit of shake? If it's good it's good. Sometimes a little shake makes the shot. These are shot with 1/4 of a second. And it definitely helps if the camera is able to hold the horizon or other motion. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/419064-why-the-m-needs-ibis/?do=findComment&comment=5752356'>More sharing options...
SrMi Posted February 5 Share #43 Posted February 5 11 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said: Even if Leica soldier on to essentially make a Sony in an M shell, what they really need to do is assure their user base that they will have the backs of those who prefer the simplicity of the older models. Better repair times, battery availability, parts availability (for third parties as well), and so on. Nobody really needs a new M every three to four years, esp when there are so many available on the used market (well at least there are when the new model comes around). There is no indication that Leica is or will move to make a Sony in an M shell. An M8 is not simpler to use than an M11. Yes, the M11 has some features that make it a better camera, but it is as straightforward to use as the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 5 Share #44 Posted February 5 13 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said: [...] Nobody really needs a new M every three to four years [...] Except those willing to pay for that. Others are of little interest, financially at least... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted February 5 Share #45 Posted February 5 New M new fun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf_ZG Posted February 5 Share #46 Posted February 5 I can’t believe people asking for IBIS. To freeze the moment? If the M is not freezing enough by itself already… 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradS Posted February 5 Share #47 Posted February 5 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I guess the graph might be interesting for Canon users. Not sure what it has to do with anything for the rest of us. Nothing about the graph implies that the M11 needs IBIS. I didn't read the linked article - I'm very much adverse to DPReview. Edited February 5 by BradS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crem Posted February 5 Share #48 Posted February 5 (edited) 5 hours ago, evikne said: Won't it be a bit strange with IBIS when you can't see the effect in the viewfinder? Only after the picture is taken will you see the result (and you’ll never know for sure if you should thank IBIS or your steady hand). 😉 It won't be strange because... what the IBIS in the M crowd really want is a Sony like M with IBIS + EVF + stacked sensor + no physical shutter + tons of megapixels. What they don't realize is they should really just get a Sony or a SL3. Or perhaps a tripod. Edited February 5 by Crem 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
_leicaguru Posted February 5 Share #49 Posted February 5 (edited) 3 hours ago, Derbyshire Man said: Not so sure, for me it's the user experience, small, light, inconspicuous, rangefinder, manual focus. I like that I can take either compact files for reportage or full mp for approaching medium format landscape and portraiture. All out of a single body. It should be. I don't care about this triple resolution thing. The main draw should be obvious. The rangefinder experience. However, with the [now] unstoppable pursue of higher megapixels, the now new design of sharper, more corrected, close focus lenses, and stabilized live view, it is slowly sidelining the rangefinder and necessitating the use of large batteries because you need to use live view or a Visoflex. Next is the focus on these SPECS to keep up with nonsensical demands and making another general purpose mirroless camera without auto focus. The M11 is basically ushering the era of making the rangefinder obsolete. Anyway. The M11 really cemented the fact in my head that the M10R is the last digital M body I will ever be interested in and when mine dies back to a film M it is. I am not playing this SPEC game. I don't need it. It's not fun. It's not what the M is about. For me at least. You can keep your quintuple resolutions (because why keep it at 3 when the camera is heading to 150MP sensor), and your EVFs and your 10 axis IBIS and all that crap. I don't want it. I want a simple rangefinder that I can look through, feel the mechanics of a rangefinder, the controls, simple point it, shoot it. Done. No pixel peeping no perfection. Nothing. A simple mechanical box that can take a picture. Edited February 5 by _leicaguru 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
_leicaguru Posted February 5 Share #50 Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Pelu2010 said: These are shot with 1/4 of a second. And it definitely helps if the camera is able to hold the horizon or other motion. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I can easily make those shots with my M10R. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
_leicaguru Posted February 5 Share #51 Posted February 5 (edited) 3 hours ago, Markey said: A sustainable market for the traditional M is probably no longer profitable without continually attracting new customers. . The way the prices are heading I don't think the M is ever going to be a mass market camera. Honestly, I am just talking here but the truth is I am no longer interested in digital Ms because the future of the M is obvious and I don't want to go back to owning what will basically be a very expensive Fuji. I'll stick to the M10R for as long as it works, then probably move to an MP or M-A if the M10R dies beyond repair. Edited February 5 by _leicaguru 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
costa43 Posted February 5 Share #52 Posted February 5 4 hours ago, _leicaguru said: The M has no competition. This is the thing people get so wrong. There is no other digital rangefinder. The M is on its own island. Leica has the SL line that is competing with others. The M doesn't have to be anything other than a simple rangefinder. I do agree with you but Leica are giving us 60mp sensors now, if this is their path with the M then IBIS is an addition that would be welcomed. If Leica made my perfect M then it would not be in there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelu2010 Posted February 5 Share #53 Posted February 5 9 minutes ago, _leicaguru said: I can easily make those shots with my M10R. Yes I know ! These are made with a M240! you wrote that you don’t need shutter times longer than 1/125 or 1/250. So I just wanted to show that sometimes long time exposures can be very nice! And with IBIS you can hold slow shutter much better. I am using a gimbal for more demanding slow shutter. cheers 🥂 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
_leicaguru Posted February 5 Share #54 Posted February 5 (edited) 10 minutes ago, costa43 said: I do agree with you but Leica are giving us 60mp sensors now, if this is their path with the M then IBIS is an addition that would be welcomed. If Leica made my perfect M then it would not be in there. The path is Sony's path. Here's a view of the future M 2024: Sony α1 II: Released in November 2024, this flagship camera features a 50.1-megapixel Exmor RS stacked BSI CMOS sensor. 2025: Sony α7R VI: Rumored to be released in 2025, this model is expected to feature a near 100-megapixel sensor, marking a significant increase in resolution for Sony's mirrorless lineup. 2025-2030: Introduction of full-frame sensors exceeding 100 megapixels in consumer cameras. Advancements in sensor technology to improve low-light performance and dynamic range despite higher pixel densities. 2030-2040: Potential development of full-frame sensors approaching or exceeding 200 megapixels for specialized applications. Integration of advanced computational photography techniques to manage and utilize the vast amounts of data generated by high-megapixel sensors. My path: 2025-203* - Leica M10R. Shoot. Recharge batteries. 2040-beyond - Leica M10R if not Leica M2 or MP or M-A load film - develop . Rinse and repeat Beyond that - death Edited February 5 by _leicaguru Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 5 Share #55 Posted February 5 20 minutes ago, Crem said: [...] what the IBIS in the M crowd really want is a Sony like M with IBIS + EVF + stacked sensor + no physical shutter + tons of megapixels. What they don't realize is they should really just get a Sony or a SL3. Or perhaps a tripod. What they (we) do realize is they (we) want the best possible camera for their (our) M lenses. No Sony camera can do that. Been there done that. And SL cameras are too big for their (our) taste. And no tripod please, we (at least i) can still walk w/o rollator... although using a tripod with a rollator must be a kind of sport 😄 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markey Posted February 5 Share #56 Posted February 5 (edited) 8 minutes ago, lct said: What they (we) do realize is they (we) want the best possible camera for their (our) M lenses. No Sony camera can do that. Been there done that. And SL cameras are too big for their (our) taste. And no tripod please, we (at least i) can still walk w/o rollator... although using a tripod with a rollator must be a kind of sport 😄 The market will dictate what we get and that may not be what we want. It won`t happen tomorrow but I think that will be the direction of travel. The M will be no different in this regard than any other camera which has gone before. Edited February 5 by Markey 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
_leicaguru Posted February 5 Share #57 Posted February 5 Just now, Markey said: The market will dictate what we get and that may not be what we want. I won`t happen tomorrow but I think that it will be the direction of travel. The M will be no different in this regard than any other camera which has gone before. It is written in the stars. The future for people who want a simple rangefinder is film. And hopefully Leica doesn't stop making them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markey Posted February 5 Share #58 Posted February 5 1 minute ago, _leicaguru said: It is written in the stars. The future for people who want a simple rangefinder is film. And hopefully Leica doesn't stop making them. Following this discussion I was drawn to the same conclusion. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted February 5 Share #59 Posted February 5 (edited) 6 hours ago, _leicaguru said: Sounds like a classic case of age-related tremors sneaking up on you. Sometimes, they’re so subtle that the brain adapts and filters them out, so to you, your hands seem perfectly steady—kind of like a mild form of sensory anosognosia. Shoot it at 1/250 if your hands can no longer handle the reciprocal 1/f rule. It’s not a rule. It’s a guide. And it was for the relatively low resolving power of 135 format film based on a relatively small output size.. Some can do better. Some can do worse. Not all the reasons are age related. Different cameras and shutters react differently in the same hands. Grips and thumbing. Revised technique. 1/f hasn’t been a thing since about 16MP sensors. Gordon Edited February 5 by FlashGordonPhotography 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 5 Share #60 Posted February 5 1 minute ago, _leicaguru said: [...] The future for people who want a simple rangefinder is film [...] Reason why Leica still make film Ms i guess. Digital Ms will be modern or will not be digital Ms anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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