What new S should differentiate from SL besides larger sensor and perhaps more MPs?

[ropo54]

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My S007 along with my S100 are needing service and are with Leica Germany currently.  They have been there for 2.5 months.  Appraisals are completed as of a couple of weeks ago.  S007 work will be gratis; S100 needs some adjustments.  Leica NJ has quoted "9 months from appraisal" for completion of work.  

Several months ago, I sent my S 35 to Leica for work.  Again, was quoted "9 months". I did receive the lens returned approximately 3 months later.

Leica has lent me a S007 loaner in the interim.

Repair times now are extremely frustrating.

 

 

2 hours ago, BernardC said:

In my experience it's more like 3 weeks for S cameras and lenses, but you'll need to contact your local Leica representative to confirm.

Some M-mount gear takes many months to service, which is partly due to the increasing popularity of film and of vintage gear. The good news is that a new generation is taking grandpa's Leica gear out of storage and using it. The bad news is that they are ahead of you in the service queue!

 

Edited February 3 by ropo54

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[BernardC]

27 minutes ago, ropo54 said:

Several months ago, I sent my S 35 to Leica for work.  Again, was quoted "9 months". I did receive the lens returned approximately 3 months later.

That's why it's best to check with your local importer. I've been lucky with my most recent repairs (one was just a service, the other was a sensor replacement). I wasn't so lucky for a different repair in the late 2010s, which took 4 months.

I've also delayed some non-S service because of the quoted delay. That was for an M lens that I wanted to have coded. I asked again a few months later and the turnaround was back down to a week or so.

[Pieter12]

4 hours ago, BernardC said:

In my experience it's more like 3 weeks for S cameras and lenses, but you'll need to contact your local Leica representative to confirm.

Some M-mount gear takes many months to service, which is partly due to the increasing popularity of film and of vintage gear. The good news is that a new generation is taking grandpa's Leica gear out of storage and using it. The bad news is that they are ahead of you in the service queue!

At least there are independent repair shops for the film M cameras, so you have a choice and maybe shorter lead times.

[tom0511]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Nick Guttridge:

I'm worried about service from Leica for both version of the S. I've heard that to get a lens serviced can take six months. 

So far my 007 has been a rock, but at some point it will need to be serviced. I don't know how I will cope without it for six months+

Please someone tell me Leica aren't that bad at servicing.

I had only good experience so far. I would recommend to call German customer service in advance or have a good store with good contact.

 

[ropo54]

7 hours ago, BernardC said:

That's why it's best to check with your local importer. I've been lucky with my most recent repairs (one was just a service, the other was a sensor replacement). I wasn't so lucky for a different repair in the late 2010s, which took 4 months.

I've also delayed some non-S service because of the quoted delay. That was for an M lens that I wanted to have coded. I asked again a few months later and the turnaround was back down to a week or so.

To my disappointment a couple of years ago, I had asked Leica Miami (where I'd purchased my certified pre-owned S 007) for help shipping my S for remedial repair and they were "too busy" at the time to add my gear to their shipment going out.  I was asked to deal with directly with shipping to N.J. so handled it myself.  Leica N.J. is responsive, particularly good with a loaner camera in the interim, but Leica Germany's repairs are frustratingly slow.  

[davidmknoble]

I really enjoy the Hasselblad X2D, but the new lenses for the system are really sharp in the middle and have horrible fall of and focus shifts.  I purchased some of the older lenses and they are superb.  The S lenses themselves draw really well and as a cohesive system, I love the glass (I shoot landscape and not studio).  Even though the SL3 and the M11 have stellar sensors, I still feel like I can pull a little more color and contrast out of the MF system.  Think about the S3 v. SL3 sensor, similar MP, but larger area in the S3.

I think the megapixel war is over for many.  Anywhere in the 60-100mp range provides a lot of large print fun.  I still think the 37mp is relevant as I only print 17x22 as the largest size on my own, in a little bigger in a lab.

Part of the draw in the MF arena for me is that the system is sturdy.  The mounts are strong and so I can use those heavier filter systems on the end of the lens and the whole system is rock solid.  I know that has a lot to do with tripods, techniques, etc.  And I simply enjoy the OVF.  I’m warming to the SL3 as I get better at editing the files, but I also love the 35mm in the S system and we still don’t have the 24mm for the SL.  My 2 most used lenses in the S are the 35 and 45.

I also love that the S system does not require Fotos.  I shoot in locations sometime that don’t have a cell signal, but my GPS in the S system still captures location.  Small nit for many I’m sure, but I prefer not to need another electronic device to work.

We’ll see what magic they come up with!

[tom0511]

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Am 16.2.2025 um 13:57 schrieb davidmknoble:

I really enjoy the Hasselblad X2D, but the new lenses for the system are really sharp in the middle and have horrible fall of and focus shifts.  I purchased some of the older lenses and they are superb.  The S lenses themselves draw really well and as a cohesive system, I love the glass (I shoot landscape and not studio).  Even though the SL3 and the M11 have stellar sensors, I still feel like I can pull a little more color and contrast out of the MF system.  Think about the S3 v. SL3 sensor, similar MP, but larger area in the S3.

I think the megapixel war is over for many.  Anywhere in the 60-100mp range provides a lot of large print fun.  I still think the 37mp is relevant as I only print 17x22 as the largest size on my own, in a little bigger in a lab.

Part of the draw in the MF arena for me is that the system is sturdy.  The mounts are strong and so I can use those heavier filter systems on the end of the lens and the whole system is rock solid.  I know that has a lot to do with tripods, techniques, etc.  And I simply enjoy the OVF.  I’m warming to the SL3 as I get better at editing the files, but I also love the 35mm in the S system and we still don’t have the 24mm for the SL.  My 2 most used lenses in the S are the 35 and 45.

I also love that the S system does not require Fotos.  I shoot in locations sometime that don’t have a cell signal, but my GPS in the S system still captures location.  Small nit for many I’m sure, but I prefer not to need another electronic device to work.

We’ll see what magic they come up with!

David - Leica S35 is like FF 28mm which is available and a very nice lens (APO SL 28)

[davidmknoble]

On 2/27/2025 at 1:50 PM, tom0511 said:

David - Leica S35 is like FF 28mm which is available and a very nice lens (APO SL 28)

Yes, that is why I use the 35 and 45 so much (28 and 35 in 35mm format).  The 30 is my next most used S lens (24mm in 35mm format).  I have the APO SL 28, and it is a very nice lens.  I get a lot less distortion out of the 35-S lens though.

[tom0511]

Am 16.2.2025 um 13:57 schrieb davidmknoble:

I really enjoy the Hasselblad X2D, but the new lenses for the system are really sharp in the middle and have horrible fall of and focus shifts.  I purchased some of the older lenses and they are superb.  The S lenses themselves draw really well and as a cohesive system, I love the glass (I shoot landscape and not studio).  Even though the SL3 and the M11 have stellar sensors, I still feel like I can pull a little more color and contrast out of the MF system.  Think about the S3 v. SL3 sensor, similar MP, but larger area in the S3.

I think the megapixel war is over for many.  Anywhere in the 60-100mp range provides a lot of large print fun.  I still think the 37mp is relevant as I only print 17x22 as the largest size on my own, in a little bigger in a lab.

Part of the draw in the MF arena for me is that the system is sturdy.  The mounts are strong and so I can use those heavier filter systems on the end of the lens and the whole system is rock solid.  I know that has a lot to do with tripods, techniques, etc.  And I simply enjoy the OVF.  I’m warming to the SL3 as I get better at editing the files, but I also love the 35mm in the S system and we still don’t have the 24mm for the SL.  My 2 most used lenses in the S are the 35 and 45.

I also love that the S system does not require Fotos.  I shoot in locations sometime that don’t have a cell signal, but my GPS in the S system still captures location.  Small nit for many I’m sure, but I prefer not to need another electronic device to work.

We’ll see what magic they come up with!

Yesterday I compared quick and dirty S3+24mm and 70mm vs X2D + 20-35@24 and 75.

Here the Hassy Zoom at f5.6 was sharper in the corners than the 24S. So from my side I can't see any sharpness corner problems in this case.

The 70 @3.4 Leica vs the Hassy 75/3.4 wide open both were very good, while the Leica showing very slightly smoother Bokeh at 3.4 and naturally at 2.5 you can see the difference in DOF vs the Hassy at 3.4.

What I am trying to say is while the Leica lensespaybe render slightly more "organic" I done find the Hassy lenses not bad at all, and in my experience one can't say the new Hassy lenses are generally less sharp in the corners.

I love the flexibility of the 20-35 Hassy and its not bigger than a SL 16-35, the hood is even much smaller.

The Hassy lenses do show more vignetting when profile is deactivated, but I assume the Leica S lenses do have it baked in the raw file allready.

Both are great systems.

[helged]

4 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

Yesterday I compared quick and dirty S3+24mm and 70mm vs X2D + 20-35@24 and 75.

Here the Hassy Zoom at f5.6 was sharper in the corners than the 24S. So from my side I can't see any sharpness corner problems in this case.

The 70 @3.4 Leica vs the Hassy 75/3.4 wide open both were very good, while the Leica showing very slightly smoother Bokeh at 3.4 and naturally at 2.5 you can see the difference in DOF vs the Hassy at 3.4.

What I am trying to say is while the Leica lensespaybe render slightly more "organic" I done find the Hassy lenses not bad at all, and in my experience one can't say the new Hassy lenses are generally less sharp in the corners.

I love the flexibility of the 20-35 Hassy and its not bigger than a SL 16-35, the hood is even much smaller.

The Hassy lenses do show more vignetting when profile is deactivated, but I assume the Leica S lenses do have it baked in the raw file allready.

Both are great systems.

No digital lens correction with the S-lenses; you get what the sensor is seeing. As a side note, the OVF on S-bodies has rather advanced optics in order to accurately render what the leses are seeing. 

[tom0511]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb helged:

No digital lens correction with the S-lenses; you get what the sensor is seeing. As a side note, the OVF on S-bodies has rather advanced optics in order to accurately render what the leses are seeing. 

OK, in this case the S lenses show dramatically low vignetting which is great for DR/noise in the corners.

 

[ZHNL]

Low vignette cross focal length is one of key S design advantage for me that gives S glass house rendering. 35s has the best 28mm FF bokeh I ever seen and 70 hold the 50ish FF bar as high. 

both Fuji and Hasselblad’s ‘small’ lens require significant software support. I don’t pay too much attention on corner noise as those can be improved by stop down the lens but  the real issue with high vignette is lens rendering at background. You 
 

if you have used latest Nikon plena, compare all super sharp 135mm lens out there, you can really appreciate this. Unfortunately, I am seeing a trend that modern lens compromise this because not many pay attention on it but size, price, sharpness and CA etc 

Edited March 1 by ZHNL

[davidmknoble]

@tom0511 I have heard good things about the 20-35 zoom although I’ll likely not get one. I had the 38v and 55v and at full format (not square) I had trouble with the corners even at f/11. I was working for DOF with the ocean and I had what I needed in the center but couldn’t get crisp sand at the bottom corners. Some crazy field curvature. I sold them and use the 35-75 a lot with much less of an issue. The sand has been true of the 30.  Glad you have good experience with the wide zoom. 

[ZHNL]

24S field curvature is also strong. It requires f11 to meet my requirement at corner for deep DOF shooting. However, due to strong FC, even stop down to f11/f13, you can’t really get fully optimized deep DOF cross image. 
id say many modern 35mm prime or zoom (sigma/nikon 14-24 and sigma wide prime) fit better for landscape requirement. 
s glass are great but for landscape shooting, I don’t feel they did better for me than FF glass. 
S OVF shooting experience is huge to me though, none can replace. 

[Stuart Richardson]

Honestly, the strong field curvature in the S70mm is one of the reasons it was easy to switch to the SL2. The APO summicrons are so flat and so sharp that it is fantastic for night photography and landscape in lower light. I love the S lenses overall, but I hope that they can make new S lenses that are informed by the best of both worlds. Barring that, being like the APO Summicrons is plenty! But you would not see me complaining if the standard lens drew like the 50mm Summilux SL, though hopefully closer in size to the 70mm S...

[tom0511]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb ZHNL:

Low vignette cross focal length is one of key S design advantage for me that gives S glass house rendering. 35s has the best 28mm FF bokeh I ever seen and 70 hold the 50ish FF bar as high. 

both Fuji and Hasselblad’s ‘small’ lens require significant software support. I don’t pay too much attention on corner noise as those can be improved by stop down the lens but  the real issue with high vignette is lens rendering at background. You 
 

if you have used latest Nikon plena, compare all super sharp 135mm lens out there, you can really appreciate this. Unfortunately, I am seeing a trend that modern lens compromise this because not many pay attention on it but size, price, sharpness and CA etc 

I admit that I would not have seen the stronger vignetting if I would not have deactivated the profile. However I knew that about the 20-35 before buying it from reviewers. It has not proved to be a problem for me so far for real world shooting, the profile works fine. IBIS helps a lot as well (for handheld shooters like me). The size of the S45 was over the top for my taste, the 35 was ok and the 70 as well.

Ver interesting to read all this lens experience here!

[davidmknoble]

I think the Leica S lens system as a whole is very cohesive in terms of out put and color, but each lens has strengths and weaknesses.  The 30, 35, and 45 do a wonderful job across the frame at mid and high f/stops.  The 24 is a very wide angle for a medium format and the distortion is strong because of that.  It does have some issues at the edge, but close up to isolate something, the 24 is great (the edges don’t matter so much when out of focus).  The 70 for me a is a mid range portrait lens (CS version) not a landscape lens.  The 120 and 180 do wonderful to bring in further landsacpes at mid apertures.  The real fun about the S lenses is the performance wide open.  Here they are not meant to be crisp corner to corner, but draw really well in the middle for isolation of subjects.  To be fair, since I use the X2D as well, cropping the S system to square format removes any corner issues and lower f/stops s are still great.  The same is true there with the film Hasselblad lenses - 100 CFi, 150 CV, 50 CV FLE - the square format of 120 film uses the center and many CV and CF lenses drop off fast on the corners at all f/stops (the 120 and 100 excepted).

On topic, where Leica excels is the ability to generate lenses that are strong in the corners and have lower f/stops (i.e., f/2’s).  I think that it may be a good idea to open up the mount to let others develop lenses that may be better for square format.  The key will be the way (or lack thereof) that Leica S4 lenses talk to the body, and that can be some magic. 

IMHO.

[chrismuc]

On 3/2/2025 at 12:59 AM, ZHNL said:

 

both Fuji and Hasselblad’s ‘small’ lens require significant software support. I don’t pay too much attention on corner noise as those can be improved by stop down the lens but  the real issue with high vignette is lens rendering at background. You 
 

to which Fuji GFX lenses are you referring to?

as far as I know there is only one single 'small' GF lens, the 50f3.5

all other GF (prime) lenses are 'normal' size and the required digital correction of distortion and vignetting is minimal

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[chrismuc]

On 3/2/2025 at 6:05 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

Honestly, the strong field curvature in the S70mm is one of the reasons it was easy to switch to the SL2. The APO summicrons are so flat and so sharp that it is fantastic for night photography and landscape in lower light. I love the S lenses overall, but I hope that they can make new S lenses that are informed by the best of both worlds. Barring that, being like the APO Summicrons is plenty! But you would not see me complaining if the standard lens drew like the 50mm Summilux SL, though hopefully closer in size to the 70mm S...

enclosed an image with my S 70f2.5 @f4 and a 'find edges' version of the same image

I don't see any field curvature of relevance, I would say it's extremely flat

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[chrismuc]

bigger problem with the S 70 is that sometimes flare can be a nasty issue (this image with hood, at f 2.8)

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