Why ISO dial on M-A?

[Squidproquo]

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So forgive me as I’m new to film and slowly inching towards it:

Why is there an ISO-dial on a film camera without a light meter?

My understanding: on a film camera you tell the camera the sensitivity of the film in order for the light meter to expose correctly. With no light meter, what possible function does the iso dial have? (Other than reminding yourself of the sensitivity of film you put in it).

 

Squid

[250swb]

It's to remind you of the type of film loaded in the camera. The M3 had a similar reminder dial, and some people use so little film they have Christmas in the first few frames and the next years Christmas in the last few. It also reminds you if you have colour or B&W loaded.

Edited December 27, 2024 by 250swb

[Squidproquo]

Ok, thank you for quick response.  In todays photographic world I´m curious as to whether this is a useful feature for M-A photographers or could be eliminated entirely.  With M-A being the minimalist camera (fully mechanical, no light meter etc) - a dial is still installed just in order for you to remember film sensitivity?  Strange design choice in my view.

[LocalHero1953]

11 minutes ago, Squidproquo said:

Ok, thank you for quick response.  In todays photographic world I´m curious as to whether this is a useful feature for M-A photographers or could be eliminated entirely.  With M-A being the minimalist camera (fully mechanical, no light meter etc) - a dial is still installed just in order for you to remember film sensitivity?  Strange design choice in my view.

It has always been a common feature of film cameras.

I'm curious: do you run through a film all at the same time, or do you ever put a camera on one side for a couple of weeks? Of course if you only use one kind of film and one film camera, then the dial is a waste of space. But If you are trying out different films, or use different bodies for different films, then it's a handy feature.

Edited December 27, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[ktmrider2]

Yup, it is a very strange design feature and only goes back to the beginning of film cameras.  After 100 years, it could probably be eliminated and we could all be shooting digital.  Who here remembers setting ASA or DIN??

Edited December 27, 2024 by ktmrider2

[pedaes]

18 minutes ago, ktmrider2 said:

Who here remembers setting ASA or DIN??

Guilty!  My Canons have a little frame on the rear door where you can put a film box end flap as a reminder of what film. Useful with two bodies - b&w and colour film.

[Derbyshire Man]

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This thread reminds me that every now and then I absentmindedly start to consider a film Leica, and then I remember having strange devices to pull out the leader of part used rewound films (colour to B&W swap), having to advance again with the lens cap on and hope I have left enough space, loading my own cassettes in black pillow cases, drying film, hours in the garage in the cold, always having the wrong body with me, the fact I haven't got my canon 1v out for many years and come to my senses and get out the M11D/P/M.

And then a week later it begins again🤣

[jaapv]

 

1 hour ago, ktmrider2 said:

  Who here remembers setting ASA or DIN??

Everybody who does not use auto-ISO I guess. Maybe one or two of us remember using degrees Scheiner. 

 

[pop]

All cameras I know of have lenses to let the light in. In some cameras, those lenses are open just a very few seconds during the whole lifetime of the camera, which can run into decades. Given that the lenses are shut closed most of the time and that they can be very expensive, that money could be spent on things used more often.

[250swb]

4 hours ago, Squidproquo said:

Ok, thank you for quick response.  In todays photographic world I´m curious as to whether this is a useful feature for M-A photographers or could be eliminated entirely.  With M-A being the minimalist camera (fully mechanical, no light meter etc) - a dial is still installed just in order for you to remember film sensitivity?  Strange design choice in my view.

I have very, very few manual cameras of many types that haven't got a film reminder of some sort either a dial or a holder for the box end. I never use them, I write onto masking tape what the film is and any other info I'll need when processing it and stick that on the camera. The Barnack Leica's don't have them and notes on masking tape become essential if you have more than one loaded with different film so one way or another it's a daft idea to remove a reminder dial for the sake of the looks. Maybe you don't understand that exposing and developing film is a precise art and often has no latitude for sloppiness and information is what decisions are made with, and one source of information is the reminder dial.

Edited December 27, 2024 by 250swb

[Stuart Richardson]

4 hours ago, Squidproquo said:

Ok, thank you for quick response.  In todays photographic world I´m curious as to whether this is a useful feature for M-A photographers or could be eliminated entirely.  With M-A being the minimalist camera (fully mechanical, no light meter etc) - a dial is still installed just in order for you to remember film sensitivity?  Strange design choice in my view.

What you are asking for strikes me as asking for an oven without a temperature setting. But it is actually even less practical than that, as you cannot judge the result by looking. I don't mean to pile on with the rest, but I think the longer you shoot film, the more practical and minimal this dial will seem to you. There is no other way of knowing what the ISO of the film is in the camera, and there are many different possibilities. For example, film is not always exposed at the ISO written on the box. If you are shooting portra you might rate portra 400 at 200 or 250 for better exposures. Having the ISO dial there lets you keep track of what film is in the camera, which is especially useful if you do not finish the roll at the end of the session. 36 pictures is kind of a lot depending on what you are doing (or maybe I am just used to large format...), and you may not finish the whole roll in one session. Having the ISO dial there reminds you what the film is that is in the camera even if you have left it for a few days or weeks. I think it is a quite elegant and simple solution to a real issue. Even large format sheet film holders have places for notation.

[hansvons]

8 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

For example, film is not always exposed at the ISO written on the box.

Precisely. That's why I prefer tape. This way, I know what film is in the camera and not only whether it's BW or colour and the EI.

 

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[spydrxx]

Yep - new to film! Film cameras says it all!, Long before they had integral exposure meters most cameras had ISO/DIN reminder devices. Leica has a history of having them on their film cameras...they serve a useful purpose. As you become more used to using a film camera, you will come to appreciate the convenience.

[Fotoklaus]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Squidproquo:

Ok, thank you for quick response.  In todays photographic world I´m curious as to whether this is a useful feature for M-A photographers or could be eliminated entirely.  With M-A being the minimalist camera (fully mechanical, no light meter etc) - a dial is still installed just in order for you to remember film sensitivity?  Strange design choice in my view.

For a lot of new M-A photographers these days putting a film into the camera properly is a great obstacle.

So a QR-Code which leads to a Youtube tutorial may be better than the ISO- Dial on the back.

[earleygallery]

I’m sure you can modify your M-A, rip the reminder dial off the back and fit a new leatherette covering, job done!

[TomB_tx]

3 hours ago, Fotoklaus said:

For a lot of new M-A photographers these days putting a film into the camera properly is a great obstacle.

Can happen to old photographers too. At the local cameras store in the 1960s and elderly lady came in and asked the owner if she's load film in her camera for her, saying her fingers didn't work so well any more. Then she pulled her Hasselblad out of her shopping bag...

[williamj]

Some users cut a small square out of the film carton that includes film type and speed and slip it into the hot or cold shoe as a film reminder. Some Nikon cameras have a slot on the back of the camera which is the exact right size to take the end flap of the cardboard box your film came in so this also includes information on the number of exposures and gives enough space for ei notes. I mention this for completeness. 

[david strachan]

I stick a cut piece of the film box on the bottom of the particular camera  with sticky tape.

All work well, one needs to know what's in the camera 📷 

...

[ktmrider2]

Learn something new every day.  Thanks for the link to GOST.  I had never heard of it but makes sense that USSR would have something separate from DIN (German) or ASA (American).  Made for some interesting reading.

What do you think the “Sunny 16” rule would look like in GOST?

Edited December 28, 2024 by ktmrider2

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Fotoklaus]

Am 27.12.2024 um 11:37 schrieb jaapv:

 

Everybody who does not use auto-ISO I guess. Maybe one or two of us remember using degrees Scheiner. 

 

Ok... those who are about 110 years old...