Neel Posted December 7, 2024 Share #1 Posted December 7, 2024 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello friends, New to Leica system and fairly novice in manual photography. When I shoot during twilight and at night, my pictures are grainy. I work with aperture priority and let the camera determine ISO and Shutter. I cap my ISO to 6400. I have a Leica M11-P and 35/F2 lens. I have seen David Farkas's photograph of Radio City Music Hall and other night shots, in his Leica M11 camera review (link below), it is sharp and has no grains even though shot at ISO8000. https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2022/01/leica-m11-review-the-ultimate-digital-m/ What is the technique? Greatly appreciate your comments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 7, 2024 Posted December 7, 2024 Hi Neel, Take a look here Eliminate pixalation in low light photography. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pgh Posted December 7, 2024 Share #2 Posted December 7, 2024 (edited) Idk about the review you referenced but a lot of people use noise reduction software (like noise ninja) in post processing. It’s gotten a lot better over the years but still costs detail and pushes the image to look a little more like plastic. That said, I’ve never seen a strong photograph with noise that would have been made better by noise reduction - and I’ve never seen a meh photograph with visible noise made more interesting with noise reduction. Edited December 7, 2024 by pgh 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Albertson Posted December 7, 2024 Share #3 Posted December 7, 2024 The "AI denoise" feature in Lightroom works wonders on high-ISO images, without the result looking too plastic. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neel Posted December 11, 2024 Author Share #4 Posted December 11, 2024 Thank you for all for your suggestions. Picture attached. Feedback welcome. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/417783-eliminate-pixalation-in-low-light-photography/?do=findComment&comment=5721460'>More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted December 12, 2024 Share #5 Posted December 12, 2024 Keep in mind the most visible grain will be in the shadows - go ahead and crush those blacks until the grain isn't as noticeable. Auto exposure doesn't know it's night, so you need to learn to expose manually. High iso was not meant to turn night into day. Also, keep in mind the size the images are going to be viewed. As far as sharpness, the smaller the aperture the more sharp the images will be due to increased depth of field. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J S H Posted December 13, 2024 Share #6 Posted December 13, 2024 I think the shot looks good, but is a little too bright for my taste. As suggested, with regards to post adjustment of this shot, lowering the shadows a bit and lowering the overall exposure by .5 would probably be an improvement. A few thoughts about image capture vs post adjustment - blown highlights are always a problem with nighttime city shots, but staying at base ISO makes a huge difference. The higher you raise the ISO, the less dynamic range you will have available, so it can often be better to stay at base ISO and underexpose. ISO 200 is the next best option on the M11. You don't need ISO 8000, or 6400 or anything even approaching those levels with that much light in the scene. If I had to shoot that image handheld with the M11 and a 35, I would shoot at F/2.8, 1/60s, ISO 64. I would also try a few exposures at 1/45 or 1/30 and maybe get lucky with a sharp image. The highlights will all be fine and the shadows can be brought up enough to make it look good. Of course, I would prefer using a tripod and stopping down further, which will yield better quality in the end. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 13, 2024 Share #7 Posted December 13, 2024 Advertisement (gone after registration) Topaz Photo AI. Pixellation is something else though: jagged edges through lack of resolution. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted December 13, 2024 Share #8 Posted December 13, 2024 Am 11.12.2024 um 22:47 schrieb Neel: Thank you for all for your suggestions. Picture attached. Feedback welcome. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! To me that base input looks fine. Unfortunately you did not mention any Exif data. I presume that you shot at 1/100s or faster (see the water). I would try at 1/60s which would almost half your ISO and will bring it down well under 1000 (with fast lens). Then the surface of the building at the right has some structure that is maybe due to too much light. If you use lightroom classic (or equivalent) its not difficult to correct just that fasade (its might be better when a but darker). In such lighting generally the M11 does a very good job at AWB (!), 1/60s and handheld, f 1/1.4, ISO AUTO (will then be around 800). You might give it a correction (thumb wheel) of -⅓ or max. -⅔ EV (probably leave it at 0 and do the correction later in Lightroom Classic). If the grain upsets you a lot then you have to go with a tripod and use longer exposure times. But for such images its probably not necessary. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted December 13, 2024 Share #9 Posted December 13, 2024 All of David's images get edited in Lightroom. I don't think he used AI to reduce this image noise, as the review has been out for some time and AI has only gotten better recently. If you look at this image: Leica M11 with Super-Elmar-M 18mm f/3.8 ASPH 1/160th sec @ f/8 ISO 6400 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! the red walls show a more realistic performance of the camera. 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! the red walls show a more realistic performance of the camera. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/417783-eliminate-pixalation-in-low-light-photography/?do=findComment&comment=5722550'>More sharing options...
Surge Posted January 17 Share #10 Posted January 17 What resolution did you use? Try using 18MP. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmknoble Posted January 18 Share #11 Posted January 18 On 12/13/2024 at 12:37 PM, Photoworks said: the red walls show a more realistic performance of the camera. Was this straight out of the camera or edited? If you are over exposing and lowering it in post editing, the noise tends to go away (darling shadows). If you are shooting and the raw image is very dark, then adding exposure brings out more noise. Getting a nighttime exposure nailed is key and will help keep noise lower. Just some thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmknoble Posted January 18 Share #12 Posted January 18 On 12/11/2024 at 4:47 PM, Neel said: Thank you for all for your suggestions. Picture attached. Feedback welcome. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Just a note. In the article quoted at the top, David F. Took effectively the same image at 1/25, f/8, ISO 800. If you were shooting this scene at 1/125 second at f/8, that would be about 2 stops higher, which is ISO 3200. So, going back to exposure being important. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surge Posted January 19 Share #13 Posted January 19 On 12/13/2024 at 12:37 PM, Photoworks said: All of David's images get edited in Lightroom. I don't think he used AI to reduce this image noise, as the review has been out for some time and AI has only gotten better recently. If you look at this image: Leica M11 with Super-Elmar-M 18mm f/3.8 ASPH 1/160th sec @ f/8 ISO 6400 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! the red walls show a more realistic performance of the camera. I’m curious how the sky is so black, especially at this relatively high ISO of 6400. I took some night shots in London last week, admittedly at ~8000 ISO, and the sky is overly bright. Does anyone know how to trim or crush the blacks in LR, or what the suitable adjustment would be to get the sky to look black? It’s not noise reduction, that reduces the noise of course, but the color of the sky doesn’t change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbyshire Man Posted January 19 Share #14 Posted January 19 On 1/17/2025 at 11:46 AM, Surge said: What resolution did you use? Try using 18MP. Or even better shoot it full resolution and shrink it to 18Mp! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted January 20 Share #15 Posted January 20 6 hours ago, Surge said: I’m curious how the sky is so black, especially at this relatively high ISO of 6400. I took some night shots in London last week, admittedly at ~8000 ISO, and the sky is overly bright. Does anyone know how to trim or crush the blacks in LR, or what the suitable adjustment would be to get the sky to look black? It’s not noise reduction, that reduces the noise of course, but the color of the sky doesn’t change. These images from David Farkas are always processed, with lots of saturation and contrast. He shares his camera preset of Lightroom on the reddotforum website. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmknoble Posted January 20 Share #16 Posted January 20 I have found that slightly over-exposing high ISO and bringing the exposure down in post processing tends to remove the noise. However, the opposite, under-exposing and bringing the exposure up (or shadows) is what gives much more pronounced noise. Night shots are tricky anyway because the meter tends to make the sky want to be grey. So, you also have to meter properly and all you have is bright highlights (lights) and deep shadows (dark). 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 21 Share #17 Posted January 21 18 hours ago, davidmknoble said: I have found that slightly over-exposing high ISO and bringing the exposure down in post processing tends to remove the noise. However, the opposite, under-exposing and bringing the exposure up (or shadows) is what gives much more pronounced noise. Night shots are tricky anyway because the meter tends to make the sky want to be grey. So, you also have to meter properly and all you have is bright highlights (lights) and deep shadows (dark). It depends. The amount of noise is defined by exposure, not by ISO. If you have lower exposure, you will have more noise, regardless of whether you "under" or "overexpose." In your test, you probably had larger exposure when over-exposing and bringing the "exposure" down in the post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted January 21 Share #18 Posted January 21 On 1/19/2025 at 11:46 AM, Surge said: I’m curious how the sky is so black, especially at this relatively high ISO of 6400. I took some night shots in London last week, admittedly at ~8000 ISO, and the sky is overly bright. Does anyone know how to trim or crush the blacks in LR, or what the suitable adjustment would be to get the sky to look black? It’s not noise reduction, that reduces the noise of course, but the color of the sky doesn’t change. Two ways, black slider or dehaze. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marchyman Posted January 21 Share #19 Posted January 21 3 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said: Two ways, black slider or dehaze. Don't forget about curves. Dragging the black point to the right in the tone curve panel can do a nice job, too. Sometimes that is easier than playing with the sliders. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted January 21 Share #20 Posted January 21 24 minutes ago, marchyman said: Don't forget about curves. Dragging the black point to the right in the tone curve panel can do a nice job, too. Sometimes that is easier than playing with the sliders. Funny, I was going to mention curves, but considering the very basic nature of the question, thought levels might be a better place to start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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