Is 35mm APO overkill with film?

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On the other hand if film is being used for the aesthetic qualities of film, and an APO is being used for the ultimate image detail then save some money and buy a Hasselblad or 'Texas Leica' and knock 35mm into a cocked hat with medium format. 

Despite having many medium format cameras I've been using 35mm for landscape for a few months now and it's precisely because it has a softer more impressionistic quality even using the best lenses. It's a step back from MF which currently works for me, but I'm under no illusion that 35mm can get close to MF if image detail is paramount. 

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[didier]

14 hours ago, BjarniM said:

No, I don’t have the lens - yet.

I am saying I might want it, not that I have it. Those are two very different things.

This might seem ‘spoiled’ but I have the new 35mm Summilux and found out when I put the 35mm APO on my MP that it’s a smaller and intrudes less in the viewfinder.

Hence the question, if I gain anything image-wise with the APO, if it’s visible in 60x90cm prints or if it’s overkill, so to say.

Both Lenses have different character, you will notice that on film.

The ‘lux 35 will give you a stop more, but it can have a busy / harsh bokeh at times (especially foliage for example)

The APO cron 35 has a very smoooth bokeh (like the APO Cron 50).

[JTLeica]

22 hours ago, BWColor said:

Based on the question, you seem to have both the lens and the cameras you are asking about.  If so, we should be asking you this question.  If you are thinking of buying because you fell in love remote from the lens, then it makes sense to be asking us.  I remember when I was asking about the Zeiss 35mm f/1.4 ZM lens, because I was considering buying one.  I’m thankful that prior to purchasing I looked in my safe to find out that I had purchased the lens years ago and forgot about it.

Good lord 😂 love that

[sometimesmaybe]

personal preference only - i like sharp glass on film and character glass on digital  

[Herr Barnack]

7 hours ago, didier said:

The APO cron 35 has a very smoooth bokeh (like the APO Cron 50).

For those who want this lens, prepay at your Leica dealer now.

It should arrive in time for your 385th birthday.  😅

Edited August 28, 2024 by Herr Barnack

[Robert Blanko]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb didier:

Both Lenses have different character, you will notice that on film.

The ‘lux 35 will give you a stop more, but it can have a busy / harsh bokeh at times (especially foliage for example)

The APO cron 35 has a very smoooth bokeh (like the APO Cron 50).

This is IMHO the most important difference - which you may notice without pixel peeping.

[otto.f]

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3 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

For those who want this lens, prepay at your Leica dealer now.

It should arrive in time for your 385th birthday.  😅

This is old news at the moment, but an appropriate good joke 2 years ago

[patrickcolpron]

On 8/26/2024 at 10:28 PM, BjarniM said:

I have fallen in love with the APO-Summicron-M 35mm, very deeply 🙂

Is it overkill using the lens with film on my M6 and MP bodies?.

You have fallen in love with it, then by all means get it. You won't sleep at night until you do 😉 

Is it overkill on film? Probably, I have one and never use it on film preferring my 35 Summicron V4 because with film I seldom shoot wide open and I find the aesthetics and design of a smaller lens more enjoyable to use. 
 

The APO 35 is a great lens, no doubt and I'll test it thoroughly on film in the coming months, it is technically perfect, but ... Technical perfection comes at a price, I have taken side by side wide open images with a 35 V4 and a APO 35. Then I asked a few people which image they preferred, everyone picked the V4, it simply has a better rendering even wide open.

This said, today I have a 35 APO on an M10R, the V4 stayed at home. 

[Herr Barnack]

16 hours ago, otto.f said:

This is old news at the moment, but an appropriate good joke 2 years ago

True.  And unfortunate. 

The wait lists must be at least 5-10 years long nowadays.

Edited August 28, 2024 by Herr Barnack

[01af]

Am 26.8.2024 um 22:28 schrieb BjarniM:

Is it overkill using the [Apo-Summicron-M 35 mm Asph] with film on my M6 and MP bodies?

This is a foolish question because there isn't and cannot be such a thing as an 'overkill' for a lens. On any medium.

[otto.f]

7 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

True.  And unfortunate. 

The wait lists must be at least 5-10 years long nowadays.

Something lost in translation? In Amsterdam it's in stock, as in other stores in NL

https://www.leicastoreamsterdam.nl/leica-apo-summicron-m-35mm-f-2-asph-black-anodized.html

[Mr.Kite]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Herr Barnack:

True.  And unfortunate. 

The wait lists must be at least 5-10 years long nowadays.

Get it directly from the source. Now:

https://leica-camera.com/de-DE/fotografie/objektive/m/apo-summicron-m-1-2-35-asph-schwarz-eloxiert/shop-now?_gl=1*18semfd*_up*MQ..&gclid=CjwKCAjwuMC2BhA7EiwAmJKRrBwcCnnomVzXLZEqQeuz-lFFYhjfZ_0YYDeEyReKBJjsVHTpruaiFxoC11AQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&gbraid=0AAAAABbirkP9YwRMob6eRQjFdupxDvaKX

[01af]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb 01af:

... there isn't and cannot be such a thing as an 'overkill' for a lens.

Maybe I should elaborate: A lens cannot be an overkill in terms of performance. But of course it can be in terms of price, or more specific: price-performance ratio. The Apo-Summicron-M 35 mm Asph is an extraordinarily good lens ... probably the best 35 mm M lens ever. And it's the best on any medium, be it M8/M9, M10-R/M11, future M cameras, or film.

It also is extraordinarily expensive. Other 35 mm lenses for M mount cost half as much or less, and most of them are also very good. So yes, the Apo might be overkill ... but to your wallet, not to your film.

[Stuart Richardson]

I agree with the general sentiment. It will work beautifully on film, but I think you will not see how much better it is than even recent lenses until you put it on a high resolution digital camera. If you are going to go all out for a 35mm M lens to use on film, might I humbly recommend the 35mm Summilux ASPH? The extra stop is very useful and it has a beautiful rendering. You can have it used for less than half the price of the 35mm APO.

 

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[Mr.Kite]

vor einer Stunde schrieb 01af:

Maybe I should elaborate: A lens cannot be an overkill in terms of performance. But of course it can be in terms of price, or more specific: price-performance ratio. The Apo-Summicron-M 35 mm Asph is an extraordinarily good lens ... probably the best 35 mm M lens ever. And it's the best on any medium, be it M8/M9, M10-R/M11, future M cameras, or film.

It also is extraordinarily expensive. Other 35 mm lenses for M mount cost half as much or less, and most of them are also very good. So yes, the Apo might be overkill ... but to your wallet, not to your film.

This! End of story.

[mahakalaka]

I think you can tell the difference between those lenses on film. Maybe not comparing one shot to another, but comparing one roll against another the difference in rendering becomes more clear. If you prefer the APO over the v4 on digital, you will likely prefer it on film as well.

Personally, I prefer the v4 on digital. It's my favourite lens and really the main reason why I still use digital Leica cameras. But I mostly take photos of people and absolute perfection and highest resolution is not my main priority. I just want it to look pleasing. On film, it's more subtle and I like the look of modern lenses there as well, because 35mm film already has its own aesthetic thing going on. But I still slightly prefer the v4 on film.  

[BWColor]

Cost is the elephant in the room.  I’ve got some crazy expensive lenses and I can’t really justify their purchase.  My most expensive are all Leica and Hasselblad, but the lenses that I use the most are the Zeiss Biogon 21mm f/4.5 ZM , Voigtlander 35mm APO Lanthar and ZEISS Distagon T* 35mm f/1.4 ZM Lenses.  Each does something that I really like.  Perhaps renting lenses would allow you to see what lenses work for you and your shooting goals.  That said, the new 35mm Leica must be one crazy good lens.

[lct]

Quote

Overkill (Cambridge dictionary)
Much more of something than is needed, resulting in less effectiveness

In that sense, i find my Summicron 50/2 apo somewhat overkilled compared to my v1, v4 and v5, reason why i don't use it much on digital and i guess i would do the same on film. As for the 35/2 apo, i suspect it would be the same as i like my v1, v4 and asph v2 a lot. I have no experience with the 35/2 apo though TBH but my experience with the 50/2 apo is not encouraging i must say. Matter of taste anyway. YMMV.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Sebastian S]

i second the opinion that a real visible change in quality happens with the change to Medium Format. you won't achive the richness, depth and resolution with any 35mm lens that a 6x9 slide or negativ gives you from a texas leica for example. you have to see that in real to understand how different the quality difference is and i could bet you will never think again about the nearly unvisible difference between an apo or non apo summicron. 

[JTLeica]

3 hours ago, 01af said:

Maybe I should elaborate: A lens cannot be an overkill in terms of performance. But of course it can be in terms of price, or more specific: price-performance ratio. The Apo-Summicron-M 35 mm Asph is an extraordinarily good lens ... probably the best 35 mm M lens ever. And it's the best on any medium, be it M8/M9, M10-R/M11, future M cameras, or film.

It also is extraordinarily expensive. Other 35 mm lenses for M mount cost half as much or less, and most of them are also very good. So yes, the Apo might be overkill ... but to your wallet, not to your film.

Do you think on film you will see the difference between a 35 APO and the 35 Cron? Maybe at the edges wide open, but stopped down I doubt it. Depending on the film.

You most definitely are not getting the most out of an APO 35 by using it on a film body... So yes its absolutely overkill in my books