The difference? between sensors

[jaapv]

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Two files, one SL 601, one Panasonic S5ii Who can tell which is which? I deliberately chose Bougainville  as purple flowers are a colour torture test. Both sensors got very close.  Both were only opened in Adobe Standard, no further correction.Lens: Sigma 70-200

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[jaapv]

Adding a bit of vibrance and saturation to #2 makes them pretty close:

 

 

 

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[Jon Warwick]

Yes. Prior to you posting #2, the main difference I could see in post #1 seemed more saturation and vibrance related than anything. To me, they look very close, with the caveat my view was based (perhaps unfairly) on an iPhone view zoomed in.

The output of other color sensors I’ve used (mainly comparing my M11 vs GFX100S) can also be remarkably close, eg, assuming one also puts “modern” and very sharp lenses on the M that more closely replicates the GF lens look. I’ve tested both side by side (same subject, same file size, and printed out large crops), and it’s hard to tell them alike, expect for generally better dynamic range and more refined resolution off the GFX that for some subjects (especially landscapes) is a positive. 

Even if the output of many Bayer CFA sensors all look much the same (to me), I still think the Monochrom sensors stand out from anything else in terms of naturalness, tonal depth etc. That Monochrom sensor, to me, is what I think makes Leica stand out from many peers.

[jaapv]

Fully agree. The Monochrom cameras are a class apart. Just dusting off the M9M for a couple of events this eeek, it has been idle far too long. 

[Biotar]

SL first 😍

[Pieter12]

Subtleties are hard to detect after jpg compression and the internet have mangled the files. I assume you compared raw files side by side on your monitor.

[jaapv]

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Eizo CS calibrated.  Subtle differences. But irrelevant as they can easily be drawn together in postprocessing.  In the end I prefer the S5ii sensor as it has higher acuity, but then, it is two or three generations newer.

[Donald M]

I have the same experience as Jaap. Also with a SL601 and a s5iix. 

[jdlaing]

The difference is not in the sensors. The difference is in the image engine.

[Donald M]

Even then! The resulting picture counts 😊. A more faire comparison would be between the SL2-S and the S5ii(x), both with better sensors and image engines.

[SrMi]

We should not base our conclusions on comparing a single image based on a single scene. 

[Photoworks]

it only proves that ADOBE can't get color out of the box correctly.

open it to other programs and you get different results.

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, Photoworks said:

it only proves that ADOBE can't get color out of the box correctly.

open it to other programs and you get different results.

Depends on your definition of correct. Adobe clearly has another one than you have. And it is the user who controls Adobe software. 

[SrMi]

5 hours ago, Photoworks said:

it only proves that ADOBE can't get color out of the box correctly.

open it to other programs and you get different results.

Different, yes.

[Photoworks]

4 hours ago, jaapv said:

And it is the user who controls Adobe software. 

ok, how are you validating the camera sensor look if you have to control it?

Should the post move to post-production?

And aren't users making changes in every software?

[jaapv]

It is indeed a software issue but people tend to get hung up on sensor brand  ( although all makers use the same ASML printers for their lithography and use the same Silicon wafer)  nor is there any real difference in “color science” whatever that marketing speak may mean. The camera makers make their choice in the specifications of the filter stack and the way they manipulate the processing, although there is no way that they can move outside the norms set by CIE. The real difference is the starting point given by the software which is used by the photographer - as proven by Photoworks' post.

The postprocessing starts after the profiling and conversion in my book.

Here I used my own profile on one of the cameras (not telling 😜)  Both the greens and the purples are very close to reality, at least in Adobe RGB - a perfect point to start interpreting.

 

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[hansvons]

On 8/10/2024 at 9:36 PM, jaapv said:

Both sensors got very close.  Both were only opened in Adobe Standard, no further correction.Lens: Sigma 70-200

For me, the two images are quite different. And yes, of course, it’s relatively easy for an advanced editor to get them close in appearance. But this isn't the question to be answered.

The question is, which image interpretation inspires me most? This is essential, as your inspiration will guide your editing—if you understand editing as making rather than fixing. And that's where colour science kicks in. And it doesn't matter whether that’s the camera’s colour or the editing apps interpretation. Both matter. I dislike Adobe's way and prefer C1’s. I also prefer Leica over Canon because their skin tones tend to look overly healthy. Others prefer Canon and Adobe for exact that very reason. 

BTW, if I shoot test images, I always shoot medium closeups of people meaningfully dressed in a backlit environment encompassing a wide range of colours and contrast. I find skin tones to be essential to assess colour. It’s the colour we can relate best to.

 

[Smogg]

I like the green on the leaves in the first frame much better.

 

Edit: I would bet that SL is the first shot. Colors are more delicate, there are fewer losses in transitions between close colors. For me these pictures are not close in color at all

Edited August 12, 2024 by Smogg

[jaapv]

The greens are too brown.

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[Smogg]

2 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The greens are too brown.

And that's great! Foliage is usually very distracting in photos with its poisonous color, so I prefer a muted look