Best Summicron 35 to match the Summicron 50 collapsible IQ wise?

[lct]

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I'm after a 35mm Summicron sans goggles to match the IQ of my Summicron 50/2 v1 collapsible. Googles' answer («all versions of 35 are quite unique picture wise and equally wonderful lenses; for general shooting to match your 50, you might invest in the asph version») sounds like a clueless reviewer. I suspect the Summicron 35/2 v1 (11008 or 11308) is the way to go but do you have better ideas? TIA

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[dpitt]

IMO it definitely would need to be a pre-ASPH version. 

It depends on what you want to match exactly.
I find the color rendering of the Summicron 50 v1, v2 (Rigid) and DR quite unique. I found the same in a 60s 90mm Summicron, but even though I have not seen the same in a 35mm lenses. I have tested both an old LTM Summaron 35 and a goggled Summaron 35.  Also the Summicron 35 v1 (goggled version) and Summicron v3 and v4, as a Summilux 35 v2. They all render colors in a different way. Maybe the Summicron 35 v1 and the Summilux 35 v1 were closer, but still not the same for my eyes. At best these are in between the Summicron 50v1+v2 and the Summicron 50 v3 in that department.

The sharpness and contrast, so basically B&W behavior will be easier to match in a Summicron v1 or even v2-v4 as far as I can see. I love the Summicron 35 v3, and maybe it is even closer to the nice rich tones you get from a good condition Summicron 50 v1. The Summicron v1 seems to have less contrast but looks 'cleaner', a bit more like the Summicron 50 v2 in comparison.

 

[pippy]

9 hours ago, lct said:

I'm after a 35mm Summicron sans goggles to match the IQ of my Summicron 50/2 v1 collapsible......I suspect the Summicron 35/2 v1 (11008 or 11308) is the way to go......do you have better ideas?

I suspect that you are absolutely correct.

For a clean unscratched lens even the 'regular' 8-Element is hardly in Bargain-basement territory nowadays which leads me to suspect that due to the rarity of the 11008 (500-600 or thereabouts) those lenses will fetch silly-money; therefore the 11308 would probably be the more realistic option.

I could well be mistaken about the asking-price of an 11008 but, as I've never seen one advertised (simply never been on my radar), I couldn't say for sure.

One other option - if obtaining a pristine lens with this exact character is a priority - you might consider would be the reverse-engineered '8 Element' clone released by Light Lens Lab some three years ago. I'm fairly sure you will have noticed the thread where Al Brown (and others) posted 'comparison' photographs when examples of these lenses were used alongside the Leitz original. To save you the trouble of hunting for the initial thread here's the relevant link;

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/326477-summicron-352-8-element-vs-light-lens-lab-352-a-direct-comparison/#comment-4312043

There is also a recently started thread in this M Lens sub-forum where images taken with the LLL '8-E' are being posted.

Philip.

Edited July 29, 2024 by pippy

[lct]

Went for a clean 11008 at a not unreasonable price with one year warranty. Thank you folks 🙂

[grahamc]

Please let us know your thoughts when you receive it @lct .    I had the v2/Rigid at the same time as all the 35 pre-ASPH crons (and 50 cron versions v3 onward) and found the 50 rigid a unique look amongst them.   To my knowledge the 50 rigid/collapsible are only one amongst these mentioned that were not designed by Mandler, so perhaps it shouldn’t surprise us.  But as pointed out 8e certainly has the closest colours, I think.  

FWIW In the end I found 35 v1 8e and 50 cron v3 to be a perfect pairing and enjoyed the rigid as a look of its own.    

Strangely the lens I owned that did match closest the overall rendering look (contrast/colours) was the 90:2.8 elmarit “fat”, which of course is a Mandler design.  

Edited July 30, 2024 by grahamc

[lct]

34 minutes ago, grahamc said:

Strangely the lens I owned that did match closest the overall rendering look (contrast/colours) was the 90:2.8 elmarit “fat”, which of course is a Mandler design.

I envisioned to order a version 1 of the Elmarit 90/2.8 that exists in M39 mount as well. Its M version has a close IQ to the collapsible 50, as clear as i recall, but i have no experience with the "fat" T-E. Is it prone to flare the same way as the "thin" version? Just curious.

[TomB_tx]

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I’ve had the fat TE since 1968 and never noticed a flare problem, but I’ve nearly always used it with its deep hood, which reverses over it when not used, so fits in my kit.

[grahamc]

15 hours ago, lct said:

I envisioned to order a version 1 of the Elmarit 90/2.8 that exists in M39 mount as well. Its M version has a close IQ to the collapsible 50, as clear as i recall, but i have no experience with the "fat" T-E. Is it prone to flare the same way as the "thin" version? Just curious.

I also had the thin but preferred the fat, they render more or less identically but liked the fat build (particularly in silver) and noticed less flare although didn’t test in any controlled way, so might have been confirmation bias 👍

[grahamc]

Cosmetically the fat in silver is a beauty with the 35mm crown v1.  And, I suppose , your 50 cron !

Edited July 30, 2024 by grahamc

[lct]

Both 35/2 and 50/2 being M39 i think i will go for an M39 Elmarit 90/2.8 as well. I found one from 1960 while the 35/2 is from 1963.

 

[grahamc]

9 hours ago, lct said:

Both 35/2 and 50/2 being M39 i think i will go for an M39 Elmarit 90/2.8 as well. I found one from 1960 while the 35/2 is from 1963.

 

very nice  

[lct]

Here's the beast.

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Edited July 31, 2024 by lct

[lct]

And the 'cron. I have not yet received them but i can't wait.

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[grahamc]

Beautiful lenses !

[Danner]

Great kit of lenses.  Curious what camera(s) these are for?

[lct]

They would deserve a Barnack but will have to accept a marriage of convenience (M11, M240) 🙄