Tilt and shift lenses

[gdb]

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Which is the best tilt-shift lens on L-mount (without adapter) ?

And by the way, can in-camera perspective control or post-processing procedures replace a tilt-shift lens ?

Thanks for your advices !

Gérard

Edited June 22, 2024 by gdb

[aj55]

In the past I tried an older shift lens from Nikon on my D700 and it gave severe color gradients once shifted..

I suppose the ones from the digital age are corrected for this.

Something to look out for!

Edited June 22, 2024 by aj55

[aj55]

To add. I think the shift can be replicated using post processing but the tilt and thus changing the orientation of the focal plane with all its dof effects are far more difficult.

In so far I would prefer tilt over shift.....

[aj55]

You can of course use focus stacking (in macro) to create a greater dof but with a tilt lens the uneven unsharp parts are part of the fun!

[dpitt]

With digital correction, some pixels are stretched, others are compressed. When stretching, you loose resolution.
This does not happen with optical shift or tilt.

[Jon Warwick]

3 hours ago, gdb said:

Which is the best tilt-shift lens on L-mount (without adapter) ?

And by the way, can in-camera perspective control or post-processing procedures replace a tilt-shift lens ?

Thanks for your advices !

Gérard

Not sure there exists a tilt-shift in native L mount, ie, your options would all need adapters such as using the Canon T/S lenses? Leica’s perspective control is very useful for accurate visual of the end image, rather than just eye balling it and hitting correction in Adobe. I know Reid Reviews has done analysis of it vs using a tilt shift lens. I’ve personally been very impressed by the relatively low loss of quality from the in-camera perspective control, considering the warping and bending needed. Finally, and this won’t answer your question, but (IMHO) the best option these days is a Fuji GFX camera and one of the very high performing GF tilt shift lenses that were fairly recently launched. 

[Simone_DF]

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Yes, there are native options, from Laowa, 20mm and 15mm:

https://www.venuslens.net/product/laowa-20mm-f-4-zero-d-shift/

https://www.venuslens.net/product/15mm-f-4-5-zero-d-shift/

[Bikie John]

21 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Yes, there are native options, from Laowa, 20mm and 15mm:

https://www.venuslens.net/product/laowa-20mm-f-4-zero-d-shift/

https://www.venuslens.net/product/15mm-f-4-5-zero-d-shift/

Yes, but it looks as though they only do shift, not tilt. Which might be all the OP needs, of course.

John

[aj55]

Or perhaps this one for tilt:

https://www.kamera-express.nl/ttartisan-tilt-50mm-f-1-4-l-mount

Totally affordable and a somewhat more useful focal length I would say.....

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Edited June 23, 2024 by aj55
pic added

[gdb]

On 6/22/2024 at 12:40 PM, dpitt said:

With digital correction, some pixels are stretched, others are compressed. When stretching, you loose resolution.
This does not happen with optical shift or tilt.

Thank you Dirk,

You gave me the answer nobody gave me and never found anywhere : pixels compressed and lost resolution. While SL2 firmware  in body correction is a very elegant and easy way to solve this problem, I don’t know whether the pixel status is respected or not. 

So I was still looking for an T/S affordable solution and found those two L-mount Laowa 15 & 20mm lenses. I shall probably choose this solution later this year, when I finish to pay for my SL3….

Thanks for your help

Gérard

[mokona]

I was also looking for a shift lens and at some point I considered the Laowa 20mm shift. In the end I didn't pull the trigger because of the size of the lens: the Laowa is basically a DSLR lens with an adapter included (like the sima HSM line). So I'm still waiting for a real L-mount shift lens.

[SrMi]

For small shifts, you should consider using the Leica Perspective Control. You do lose some resolution, and the proportions may change slightly, but you do not need to carry an extra lens/adapter or use a tripod.

I think the best quality you can get is using Canon T/S lenses with the appropriate adapter.

If you are OK using Hasselblad V or Pentax 645 lenses, Fotodiox makes simple shift adapters.

[Simone_DF]

9 hours ago, mokona said:

I didn't pull the trigger because of the size of the lens: the Laowa is basically a DSLR lens with an adapter included (like the sima HSM line). So I'm still waiting for a real L-mount shift lens.

Unfortunately, I think you'll keep waiting for a very long time. Tilt/shift lenses are not that popular, and there's no native mirrorless option for Canon, Nikon or even Sony.  

[dpitt]

14 hours ago, gdb said:

Thank you Dirk,

You gave me the answer nobody gave me and never found anywhere : pixels compressed and lost resolution. While SL2 firmware  in body correction is a very elegant and easy way to solve this problem, I don’t know whether the pixel status is respected or not. 

So I was still looking for an T/S affordable solution and found those two L-mount Laowa 15 & 20mm lenses. I shall probably choose this solution later this year, when I finish to pay for my SL3….

Thanks for your help

Gérard

In general, I do not mind doing some correction in PP in stead of using a TS lens.
SL2 firmware solution is the same and will have to stretch or compress info. Even the best AI solution would have to make up info. I do not even know if there are TS solutions using AI available yet.

If you are really into architecture photography I think that nothing can beat the optical solution.
One of the most compact and very reasonable priced solutions are the Leica R shift lenses:
https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/35mm_f/4_PA-Curtagon-R
and
https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/28mm_f/2.8_PC-Super-Angulon-R

They are MF only and will require a simple R-L adapter or a R-M adapter if you already have the M-L adapter.
My 1:4.0/35mm PA Curtagon was sold by Leica as an R lens, but was made by  Schneider-Kreuznach hence the copyright on the brand name. IMO it is one of the R lens bargains today.

To my eyes it looks every bit as good as the Leica Elmarit R 35mm (or 28mm) from the same period and it is really good wide open at F4. This lens has an image circle of 56mm, so in theory it could be used as a 35mm on a MF digital mirrorless with the correct adapter. In that case you would of course not have much room to shift it.

The 28mm Super-Angulon is more recent, rare and more expensive. I never used it, but heard it is even better. I think that if you can live with MF, they will both be superior in IQ to anything Laowa will (can) offer today.
No wonder because the PA Curtagon 35 sold for $2800 in 1992 and that is $400 more than the Summilix-M 35 pre-APSH at the time, and 2 times the price of the Leica Elmarit 35 R of the same time.
The 28mm Super-Angulon R was $3700 on the same price list.

Of course these prices are of no relevance to today's used prices, but it sort of indicates their relative market value in 1992.

Edited June 24, 2024 by dpitt

[Photoworks]

I think Leica prospective control is useful to preview but I found that it often over corrected most of the image’s and loosing pixel in the crop.

to me all editing is done in software and don’t find pp useful.

the best shift lenses are from canon. The still softer than Leica lenses, and there are many variations that deliver different CA.

i found the most useful lenses are 24mm and 17mm.

I didn’t think the lowa lenses performe as well..

‘the biggest difference is that whit shift lenses don’t need much crop , lost pixel. 
you can also take multiple shift by mounting the lens to the tripod and moving the camera and stitching images in a set of 3-4-6 for a super wide angle not possible otherwise in small spaces. I do this often and it looks more natural that using an 8 or 10 mm lens

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

I think Leica prospective control is useful to preview but I found that it often over corrected most of the image’s and loosing pixel in the crop.

For small shifts, LPC works quite well. Here is an example:

 

[Manolo Laguillo]

As dpitt says, the Super-Angulon 28mm for the R is a beautiful lens. I know it very well because I have used it extensively with the M9, M240, M246 and M10M. But I had to test 3 exemplars of it until I found the one working as it should, which was, I must say, a brand new lens, never before used. I have printed pictures done with M10M + S-Ang 28mm on 80x120 paper, and the quality is amazing.

Now I am using exclusively the perspective correction feature included in the M10M, with 50mm, 35mm, 28mm and 21mm focal lengths. The results are very nice, and I've printed them on 120x180 cm paper.

Before that I worked with the GFX50s and GFX 100s with a Pentax 645 35mm (with KIPON shift adapter), and with Canon TS-E 17mm and TS-E 24mm as well. That was fine, but a little bit too heavy. 

I am a pro, working since the late 70's. I've used 4x5 and 8x10 cameras till the advent of digital, and my subject has been always architecture and cityscape.

[Dr. G]

On 6/23/2024 at 8:01 AM, aj55 said:

Or perhaps this one for tilt:

https://www.kamera-express.nl/ttartisan-tilt-50mm-f-1-4-l-mount

Totally affordable and a somewhat more useful focal length I would say.....

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

It's a good thought in theory, but the lens is somewhat soft especially wide open.