SL3 AF tips and tricks

[tom0511]

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I think it is no secret that there are cameras on the market with more sophisticated AF than the SL-System.

I am interested to see how we can get the best out of the SL3 (and SL-system overall) AF, therefore I start this thread for exchange of experience about AF, setting, lenses etc.

 

At the weekend I will go to an athlics-competition and check out different AF settings and see how they work.

I hope some people chime in so we can exchange our experiences about AF to make the best of it.

 

1) One impression I got yesterday evening is that one field seems to work better/hunts less than spot in low light. Can others confirm this?

Edited June 14, 2024 by tom0511

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[ALScott]

Still new on the SL3 so to be clear, by “one field” you just mean field focus correct?

[Luke_Miller]

My experience is limited to the SL and SL2.  I use back button autofocus exclusively since I also shoot with Nikons and that is how I use them.  I am mostly an event shooter and rarely do sports/action photography.  My SL/SL2 settings are AFc and Tracking Mode.  So even on static subjects I am in continuous autofocus. For events I must work very quickly, and these settings let me put the tracking box on the subject, gain focus, and then compose the shot.  If the tracking box remains on the subject as I recompose then the camera is focused correctly. For portraiture face detection works well, but I don't use it for events.  Since I use the joystick for autofocus, I have no ability to change faces if the camera chooses the wrong one. 

I find exposure settings have a much greater effect on autofocus performance than I expected.  I did a recent wedding in a rather dark church using my SL2 and 24-90 Vario-Elmarit.  I found I could not reliably gain autofocus at the 90mm f4 end.  Since I was focusing on faces, I went to spot metering which brightened the exposure enough that proper autofocus performance was restored.  Had that not worked I would have dialed in some positive exposure compensation.  If I get in a situation where I need flash, exposure preview needs to be disabled since (without the light from the flash) exposure preview shows a scene too dark for the autofocus system to achieve focus.  With the SL2 (and presumably the SL3) this happens automatically if a flash is detected in the hotshoe.  My radio flash triggers are not detected, so I have to turn off exposure preview manually.

Edited June 14, 2024 by Luke_Miller

[tom0511]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb ALScott:

Still new on the SL3 so to be clear, by “one field” you just mean field focus correct?

yes, I mean field.

 

[tom0511]

2. C-AF

Yesterday I used C-AF to photograph wing-foiling.

I changed the runner profile to: depth sensitivity +2, field movement +1 and shift direction +1, zone

worked pretty fine, even when the surfer was riding towards me. Maybe about 70-80% images were focused fine, even though the 90-280 doesn't have the best AF reputation

Here is an example:

 

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Edited June 15, 2024 by tom0511

[tom0511]

WHat I didn't like is that the viewfinder image looks blurry during shooting, but the images come out fine. SO it's a little bit surprise during shooting, if focus has been fine or not. That's different with my Canon where I can see better the viewfinder what's going on with sharpnes/focus.

But overall I was pleasantly surprised.

 

[LBJ2]

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2 hours ago, tom0511 said:

WHat I didn't like is that the viewfinder image looks blurry during shooting, but the images come out fine. SO it's a little bit surprise during shooting, if focus has been fine or not. That's different with my Canon where I can see better the viewfinder what's going on with sharpnes/focus.

But overall I was pleasantly surprised.

 

I am glad to see that you are using the AF Profiles and sub settings. These scenarios/settings can be effective for improved AF and I think many were ignoring these settings on the SL2 models. At the same time I am disappointed to read the EVF wobble/blurry remains with the SL3 in AF-C mode. That wobble is due to Panasonic's DFD AF technology. I thought the inclusion of Hybrid AF with PDAF might help eliminate that EVF wobble/blur effect. 

Regardless, on the SL2 I learned to trust the green AF confirmation and ignore the EVF wobble/blur once I realized the AF was working and the image results was fine. But yes, can be a distracting effect particularly for those not aware of this DFD effect while in AF-C  and of course causes one to naturally think their image is not in focus while trying to set up and take photos. 

Edited June 15, 2024 by LBJ2

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, tom0511 said:

WHat I didn't like is that the viewfinder image looks blurry during shooting, but the images come out fine. SO it's a little bit surprise during shooting, if focus has been fine or not. That's different with my Canon where I can see better the viewfinder what's going on with sharpnes/focus.

But overall I was pleasantly surprised.

 

That is a lens thing. Sigma lenses have a function switch to stabilize the EVF image. 

[tom0511]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb jaapv:

That is a lens thing. Sigma lenses have a function switch to stabilize the EVF image. 

I dont mean shake. Maybe its a readout thing. 

[tom0511]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb LBJ2:

I am glad to see that you are using the AF Profiles and sub settings. These scenarios/settings can be effective for improved AF and I think many were ignoring these settings on the SL2 models. At the same time I am disappointed to read the EVF wobble/blurry remains with the SL3 in AF-C mode. That wobble is due to Panasonic's DFD AF technology. I thought the inclusion of Hybrid AF with PDAF might help eliminate that EVF wobble/blur effect. 

Regardless, on the SL2 I learned to trust the green AF confirmation and ignore the EVF wobble/blur once I realized the AF was working and the image results was fine. But yes, can be a distracting effect particularly for those not aware of this DFD effect while in AF-C  and of course causes one to naturally think their image is not in focus while trying to set up and take photos. 

My feeling is that the C-AF does have improved and I am motivated to see how capable it is if you optimize settings and use it the right way.

But I agree it would be nicer if they could eliminate  the wobble/blur. 

Tmorrow I will go to a youth athletics competition and see how I will get along with the SL3.#

 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

9 hours ago, jaapv said:

That is a lens thing. Sigma lenses have a function switch to stabilize the EVF image. 

No. It isn’t. The EVF lowers its resolution to improve the read speed in AFC. The fps that the sensor feeds to the EVF also affects the speed for the AF system. The A7R5 also does this (same base silicon) but since it’s starting at a higher resolution it’s less noticeable. I don’t think it’s specifically a DFD thing. I’m guessing it something to do with the EVF processor unit. that’s why the SL2 and SL3 both do it. I also suspect this is why the Z8/9 stuck with a 3.6M dot EVF as that unit can scan at 240fps.

I need to check my R5 and A1 to see what they do. From memory it’s a manually set operation to increase the EVF fps rather than done automatically (performance mode??) like this when you touch the AF on in the SL series. The SL2 seems a bit worse than the SL3 but it’s still there.

Gordon

[LBJ2]

20 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

No. It isn’t. The EVF lowers its resolution to improve the read speed in AFC. The fps that the sensor feeds to the EVF also affects the speed for the AF system. The A7R5 also does this (same base silicon) but since it’s starting at a higher resolution it’s less noticeable. I don’t think it’s specifically a DFD thing. I’m guessing it something to do with the EVF processor unit. that’s why the SL2 and SL3 both do it. I also suspect this is why the Z8/9 stuck with a 3.6M dot EVF as that unit can scan at 240fps.

I need to check my R5 and A1 to see what they do. From memory it’s a manually set operation to increase the EVF fps rather than done automatically (performance mode??) like this when you touch the AF on in the SL series. The SL2 seems a bit worse than the SL3 but it’s still there.

Gordon

Interesting. Now that you mention it, I've never considered the SL2/SL3 EVF lowers its resolution to improve the read speed in AFC. And yes this is something we see in other mirrorless systems with certain settings, but none results in the level of SL2 EVF blur that I've seen or read about, not even the Sony 9.4 million dots EVF.

But certainly worth knowing more. Did you find some details in the SL3 manual that describes the camera will lower EVF resolution in AF-C mode to improve readout speed? Or perhaps some official communication from Leica? Certainly plausible. 

Edited June 16, 2024 by LBJ2

[FlashGordonPhotography]

2 hours ago, LBJ2 said:

Interesting. Now that you mention it, I've never considered the SL2/SL3 EVF lowers its resolution to improve the read speed in AFC. And yes this is something we see in other mirrorless systems with certain settings, but none results in the level of SL2 EVF blur that I've seen or read about, not even the Sony 9.4 million dots EVF.

But certainly worth knowing more. Did you find some details in the SL3 manual that describes the camera will lower EVF resolution in AF-C mode to improve readout speed? Or perhaps some official communication from Leica? Certainly plausible. 

It was in an article I read years ago. Damn. Now I’m going to have to try and find it. *Maybe* DPReview? It talked about the relationship between the EVF refresh rate and AF. As a collector of useless information, it stuck. Something about how the live feed refresh rate was a bottleneck for the AF readout as it also reads X times per second…..

The DFD wobble is a pulsing. The SL2 definitely has this as well, which might be why it’s a particularly bad offender (an educated guess only).

I don’t remember seeing it in y R5, which has a similar EVF. I’ll have to pull it out and test now. It’s got me intrigued. My A7R5 does but no where near as much. But it starts at a much higher rate. Surely there’s more qualified people here who can comment as to how big a fool I am for even going down this path.

Gordon

[jaapv]

I have never seen it on the S5/S5ii either. 

[geronimosan]

I'm really interested in this thread and hopeful for solutions for better AF.  As much as I love the images from the SL3 when they are in focus, I'm starting to get a bit frustrated with shooting anything other than a still subject.  I'm starting to think about selling this kit and investing in the Z9 - I'm not a Nikon fanboy, other way around, but the best image quality in the world doesn't matter if the subject isn't in focus.

A few things I've noticed so far:

1) Animal Detection - I've been shooting my dog as she retrieves toys I throw. She returns them to me as a fast walk speed, something any AF should nail these days.  AFC + Animal Detection is entirely hit-or-miss, never consistent enough.  When she is stationary, I've noticed that when Animal Detection registers as in focus, it is either front focusing (such as on the tip of her nose instead of her eyes) or the focus plane registers in the middle of her body (instead of her face).  Front focus example attached.

2) Tracking Focus - I'm actually encountering a bug in using Tracking in that sometimes, randomly it seems, I will set the Tracking box on a subject, half press to focus, and then I move the camera or the subject moves but the Tracking box doesn't not move/track - it stays stationary.  This is happening consistently enough that I have stopped using Tracking.

3) So far, for me, Field and Zone seem to yield best results for AFC, though still far from perfect.  I use Spot for non-face subjects, but I've noticed that there are times when placing the crosshair on top of my subject without interference from other objects, it might still focus on a different object off crosshair.

4) Really dislike the blurry EVF resolution during AFC. Another workaround focus flag, in addition to the green box, is to turn on focus peaking. The image will look blurry in the EVF, but I can at least get a quick glimpse of where the focus plane landed for each shot.

I went into this knowing and not expecting the SL3 AF to be anywhere near on par with something akin to the Z9, but I still expected AF to at least work, and work consistently, albeit more slowly. This has been shaping up to be a pretty disappointing experience. Especially at this price point.

 

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[Simone_DF]

2 hours ago, geronimosan said:

I'm really interested in this thread and hopeful for solutions for better AF.  As much as I love the images from the SL3 when they are in focus, I'm starting to get a bit frustrated with shooting anything other than a still subject.  I'm starting to think about selling this kit and investing in the Z9 - I'm not a Nikon fanboy, other way around, but the best image quality in the world doesn't matter if the subject isn't in focus.

My tip: get a Panasonic S5II for the time being. I currently have that and a SL2-S, and in terms of autofocus, the gap is significant. My understanding is that the S5II autofocus is better developed than the SL3, and it may take a while (a year?) for Leica to reach parity. 
Getting a S5II means you can use your existing L mount lenses, and if Leica improves their AF, you can switch back and either keep the S5II as a second body, or sell it with a little loss. 
This is also my plan, I’ll sell the SL2-S soon, keep the S5II, switch to the SL3-S if it ever appears next year

[tom0511]

Did you check out the depth sensitivity? I would recommend to try to raise it to +2. I do use the group setting, C-AF and +2 for  athletics running towards me and it worked no so bad.

For me a clear step forward compared to the SL2.

Yes, my Canon R3 is better, as the Z9 or A1 probably are, but I could get some decent images so far.

Which lensen are you mainly using?

[geronimosan]

7 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

My tip: get a Panasonic S5II for the time being. I currently have that and a SL2-S, and in terms of autofocus, the gap is significant. My understanding is that the S5II autofocus is better developed than the SL3, and it may take a while (a year?) for Leica to reach parity. 
Getting a S5II means you can use your existing L mount lenses, and if Leica improves their AF, you can switch back and either keep the S5II as a second body, or sell it with a little loss. 
This is also my plan, I’ll sell the SL2-S soon, keep the S5II, switch to the SL3-S if it ever appears next year

Thanks, I'll look more into the S52.  I hesitated initially due to its small resolution size - one of the main reasons I went with the SL3 was for the much larger resolution. Also am wondering how image quality of S52 with Leica SL lenses compares to that of SL3

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[geronimosan]

6 hours ago, tom0511 said:

Did you check out the depth sensitivity? I would recommend to try to raise it to +2. I do use the group setting, C-AF and +2 for  athletics running towards me and it worked no so bad.

For me a clear step forward compared to the SL2.

Yes, my Canon R3 is better, as the Z9 or A1 probably are, but I could get some decent images so far.

Which lensen are you mainly using?

Thanks, yes, have looked into the AF fine tuning settings. Have been testing out different tuning and AF metering combinations, and still have more testing to do, but so far no combination has yet yielded reliably good results.

I'm using the SL 90-280 and SL 24-90 lenses.

[JTLeica]

I dont ever use Tracking or AFC but the Pinpoint AF on the SL3 is exceptional, it's essentially instant and works incredibly well in extreme low light, i.e. tripod based long exposures - scenes that I could barely see with my own eyes it focussed on. It has some sort of low light af like the Z7 where it slows down the focus and rakes between near and far until it spots contrast. It's a pleasant surprise. I found the Field (box) much worse than pinpoint, I will always use that now.

It also makes me feel like a sniper 🔫

Edited July 22, 2024 by JTLeica