Which monochrom

[PaulJohn]

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I’d like to add a monochrome camera to my arsenal and am deciding between the Q2M, the M10M and the M11M.

As far as price is concerned I want o avoid depreciation more than I want to avoid spending more. I suspect the M10M wins in this category.

Shooting experience is also important to me and I have read that the M10M has a tasty shutter sound/action. I also read somewhere that the M10M files are more filmic than the M11M files.

The M11M offers benefits because it is lighter, has better exposure and has the same controls as my M11 and uses the same battery.

The Q2M appeals because it has IBIS and AF which means more keepers. 28mm is fine but the other options would mean I get to pair the monochrom with interesting lenses. I think this alone means I should discard the Q2M option.

So it’s M10M vs M11M on depreciation, shooting experience, filmic files, chance to share batteries and charger and weight.

Please can owners of both chime in on forecasted depreciation, shooting experience and differences in the DNG files. File size is not relevant to me.

TIA

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[Cattoo]

Go with the M10M.  I don’t know what a tasty shutter sound/action is, but the M10M a fine camera and it shouldn’t depreciate much more for the next 3-4 years.  I never once considered trading mine in. 

[Stephen.s1]

6 minutes ago, Cattoo said:

Go with the M10M.  I don’t know what a tasty shutter sound/action is, but the M10M a fine camera and it shouldn’t depreciate much more for the next 3-4 years.  I never once considered trading mine in. 

Couldn't have said it better.

[tom0511]

If you already own a M11I would go for the M11M, that's what I did.

Same battery, better metering like your M11, great files, larger viewfinder image in case you use evf for longer lenses.

 

[Cattoo]

I have the M11 too and I love it but I find it far more complex than my M10 was. That’s one reason I kept the M10M. It’s simpler, closer to the old school Leica esthetic, and it produces beautiful files. I actually like having both generations. My M11 is more of a higher tech modern take on the rangefinder while the M10M is more classic.  And the file differences are negligible. 

[DadDadDaddyo]

Truthfully, any of the Monochroms will probably offer you amazing new possibilities. Any of them.

So, for example, if there's a lens you've been hankering for, you could possibly grab an M246 and that lens for the price of an M10M, even more likely for the price of an M11M. 

Depreciation, if we look carefully, is really not that relevant to the larger question; it's certainly not relevant to the picture taking these wonderful cameras make possible. 

I've got the M10M and the M11M. Keeping both wasn't my intention. Rather, it's a credit to the M10M that even after moving to an M11M I've still been unable to come to the decision to sell off the M10M. They're both that special. Honestly, if/when there's an M12M I can't even figure out what I would do with the M11M. I do know that if circumstances dictated that I could keep only one camera, that I'd have to use it for the rest of my life, right now I'm pretty sure it'd be the M11M. But the M10M would qualify for that distinction as well. Again, they're both just that good. 

The business with the battery is actually pretty meaningful, especially in practice. Because I've got an M11, grabbing the M11M is an easy decision. They usually both go with me. 

But again, the M236 is a near-perfect entry point into the line. Even in terms of depreciation, I guess, its price has arrived at probably close to the low point it will reach. You could try one out for a few months or a year and then pass it on at little loss when the M10M or M11M destined for you appears. The M246 has a few features I missed in the M10M. When you equip the Leica grip you get direct USB download of files (there's a port on the grip), in-camera charging, and also the grip contains a GPS that'll tag location info for shots into your EXIF data: none of this cell phone sync nonsense to get location data!

Anyway, you can't go far wrong with any of them. If monochrome work is important to you, once you get hold of a Monochrom you'll want never to be without one again. 

[Jeff S]

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Depreciation? What will you pay initially?  How long will you keep and in exactly what condition would it be for sale? Where would you sell it and what will the Leica market, camera industry and general market conditions be then? Good luck predicting all that.

Relax, pick one and make pics.  A demo can help. Oh, and I guess your M11 is problem-free, as would be your M11M.

Btw, an excellent condition M(9)M has already depreciated (in fact gained in value in some instances) and can produce wonderful files. It’s more about the photographer and personal style/preferences IMO.

Jeff

[maxpower]

Don't overthink it, just get one and be happy! We'll all have different opinions based on our own experiences and preferences.

Deprecation: what time frame are we talking and is this an investment or is this a tool to use?
Shooting Experience: mostly the same, do think the M10M has a nicer shutter sound (and doesn't open when you turn on the camera, unless using liveview), M11M has highlighted metering whereas on M10M you'll likely want to underexpose a bit more to protect highlights
Filmic files: some people don't believe this is a thing on either camera, so very subjective.
Share batteries/charger/weight: yeah that's nice, having the same menu system is nice too.

I have the M11-P and M10M and don't really mind switching between the two, to be fair I did buy my M10M before the M11M was introduced and I didn't think there was enough reason to upgrade. For me my M10M is also not a main camera, but more a fun camera on the side. But if I didn't have an M10M yet I might be swayed by the M11M to have more similar systems - then again, also depends on your budget. 

One thing I do sometimes miss on my M10* cameras is the GPS locations through bluetooth/Fotos app that I have on my M11-P.

 

[patrickcolpron]

M10-M is the Monochrom of choice even for Leica ambassadors, I crossed path with Alan Schaller in Paris a few months ago, after stating the M11-Monochrom was the finest digital monochrom ever in a Leica promotional video 8 or 9 months before hand well... wouldn't you know, that was an M10-Monochrom in his hands.

He even said he preferred the M10-M over the M11-M in a recent YouTube video on his channel. 

0:34 fun this video above 1 year ago 

Look at 6:13 in this video which came out 5 months ago 

 

[Avatar]

I've had them all and all are great.

The M11M is for me the best and in Black is the lightest M Digital camera made at about 540 grams with the battery.

Why not start with an M246 as it's probably close to or fully depreciated.

Regardless of which one you get, I use an Orange filter always during the day and -1/3 to -1 depending on sun.

Get used to underexposing and pulling up in post.

 

[Jon Warwick]

The Monochroms are all wonderful. Imho there’s a lot to be said about getting rid of the color filter array in terms of enhancing the subtlety of tonal transitions and purity of capture (no moire etc). I’ve used / owned them all. Given I have an M11, I plan at some stage to get an M11M to share batteries, Visoflex and tripod mounts / hand grips.

[Jon Warwick]

I’d also think about the targeted output size of your prints - ie, does 24 vs 40 vs 60mp make a difference to you in terms of resolution needs?

Edited June 8, 2024 by Jon Warwick

[Eoin]

I’m going to throw a spanner in the works for you 🙃

I use M10/M10R, M11M & Q2M. For the past few months I’ve been focusing on B&W interchanging between the M11M & Q2M Cameras.

In terms of the “tasty” shutter sound, I would agree the “snick” sounds and feels better than the M11M’s shutter action, but believe me, I got over the difference very quickly.
Also the difference in the density the M10’s brass top plate vs the M11M alu top plate, the M10 feels slightly more solid in the hand, but the benefits of the lighter M11 make it more pleasant to carry.

I use weighted metering with a -1/3 comp on all cameras, I keep an eye on the histogram for highlights and correct the shadows in post if/as needed.
While I primarily shoot M the Q2 can mimic that experience mainly, but I find I tend to use it more as a P&S and I’m enjoying the freedom to grab quick shots with great success.

With the exception of the original M10, I’ve bough all my Leica equipment 2nd hand and at very considerable discount to the original sticker price.

Looking at your dilemma, the M11M offers a better battery life then the M10M, same resolution as your M11, same accessories. If B&W is going to be a new passion for you, then sharing your lenses … even better.

If it’s just to scratch the B&W itch, then I’d start with the Q2M @ €3.5k, it will not disappoint, bought keenly, it could part fund a future move to M11M without much further depreciation.

Hint … B&W is addictive, but does require post processing. An in Camera “filmic” look is subjective, I prefer to develop my own if I think the image needs it.

[onboardatlast]

If going with digital I think it makes sense to go with the M11M so have the same battery. I had the M10M and it was a bit of a pain when I upgraded my M10 to an M11 to then have two different batteries. Having said that, I traded my M10M in for an....MA. Decided I much preferred B&W film images to B&W digital images. 

[NigelG]

Sorry I never get the obsession with batteries/chargers etc. - stick a battery in your pocket and you’re good to go for the day unless you’re a wedding/event shooter - nor depreciation (it’s usually measured as a percentage so I can buy and then throw away a Fuji for less than the depreciation on one of my Ms)

If you want to hedge against depreciation go old.

I got an M9M (chrome and new sensor 🙂) long after I moved on from my M9-Ps and it remains an outlier but will AFAIK never really depreciate against what I paid. I’m not sure the shutter sound is “tasty” though 🤣

[PaulJohn]

I've just discovered there is a separate group for monochrome posts. please accept my apologies for posting in the wrong group.

I have ordered an M10M. Thanks for your help.

[Jeff S]

31 minutes ago, PaulJohn said:

I've just discovered there is a separate group for monochrome posts. please accept my apologies for posting in the wrong group.

I have ordered an M10M. Thanks for your help.

Mods can move thread… hit report button top right.  Enjoy new camera.

Jeff

[ramarren]

On 6/10/2024 at 10:54 AM, PaulJohn said:

I've just discovered there is a separate group for monochrome posts. please accept my apologies for posting in the wrong group.

I have ordered an M10M. Thanks for your help.

Congrats! Put a green filter on whatever lens you're using and you might find that your photos require very little to no image processing whatever, even raw captures. Works for me, can't guarantee for everyone else. 

The M10-M is my favorite Leica M now. I find it a difficult camera to make a poor photo with. What its depreciation might be I don't know because I don't think I'll ever want to sell it. 

G

Edited June 14, 2024 by ramarren

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[Maverick1st]

Debated this for a long time and finally decided on a M10M that i just ordered and should have next week. It will be replacing my M10 and accompanying a Q3. Really looking forward to it. 

[High_n_Dry]

I have a M11 and went with a M246. The reason for this was price and rendering. The M11 has beautiful images, but it almost has a HDR rendering that is almost too sharp for certain images. The M246 has a different look and I find that it pairs well with vintage lenses. A Leica ambassador that I know mentioned how Alan and him prefer the M10M due to the rendering. I have really enjoyed the M246 and have not have wanted for more. 

If you are near a Leica store try out the M246, M10M, and M11M and see what's important to you.