APO version of 21mm

[o2mpx]

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What’s the likelihood?

Now that the L mount has a full APO complement, will there be an APO 21mm m lens?

[lct]

I have no info about that but it would be  premiere as Leica has never made a 21/2 M lens so far. Difficult to sell at Leica price i suspect given that the Nokton 21/1.4 asph sells at 1,300 EUR.

[lct]

Now if Leica could make a Summicron 21/2 as compact as the Zuiko 21/2 (with Elmarit 21/2.8 asph below) i would be probably tempted, apo or not.

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[pgk]

11 minutes ago, lct said:

Now if Leica could make a Summicron 21/2 as compact as the Zuiko 21/2 (with Elmarit 21/2.8 asph below) i would be probably tempted, apo or not.

Skylaney might convert a Zuiko to M RF for you, and it might still be cheaper than any potential Leica f/2 offering😄.

[o2mpx]

Would be more preferable to have a APO 21 M lens instead of the L mount so it could be used on both SL and M bodies. 

[frankchn]

They might also want to refresh the Apo-Summicron-M 90mm f/2 (and maybe 75mm f/2) to bring them in line with the standards set by the Apo 35 and 50 as well.

[RexGig0]

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On 5/31/2024 at 8:32 AM, lct said:

Now if Leica could make a Summicron 21/2 as compact as the Zuiko 21/2 (with Elmarit 21/2.8 asph below) i would be probably tempted, apo or not.

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Interesting! I did not realize that such a small 21mm Olympus OM f/2 lens existed. I had researched OM lenses, in the past, on the internet, and would have been much more interested in this one, had I known that it was so compact. I just looked at the “evil bay,” and see that it not be inexpensive to acquire a really good one; about as much as one would pay for a pre-owned Leica 21mm f/3.4 Super Elmar M.

On the original topic, I tend to doubt that Leica believes that it would sell enough APO ‘Cron M 21mm ASPH lenses, to justify the research, development, and production. I would rejoice to know that such a lens existed, but, would have a tremendously difficult time justifying the expense.

Edited June 1, 2024 by RexGig0

[brickftl]

I'm unclear why such a lens would be an improvement over the21/1.4 lux. Shooting 21mm is basically for environmental/street work. In my case I didn't go for the 21/1.4 lux because, despite its supposed image quality beyond my 21/3.4 super elmar (which is way lighter/smaller than the 21 1.4 lux), I rarely when out and about using my M10 as a zone shooter have need for such a fast lens.

For my purposes if I could be convinced that stopped down to and beyond 3.4 would yield significantly better images than what I get with my current 21, perhaps I'd be interested. 

here are some I posted recently shot with the super elmar: https://brick.smugmug.com/Photography/2024-5-18-Asheville-UNC-farmers-market

 

[lct]

12 minutes ago, brickftl said:

I'm unclear why such a lens would be an improvement over the21/1.4 lux [...]

Size springs to mind.

[davidmknoble]

The quality of the SEM 21 M is about as close as you can get without being APO. It is tiny and the MTF is incredibly compact. I’m not sure what demand there would be for a 21 APO?

[RexGig0]

2 hours ago, brickftl said:

I'm unclear why such a lens would be an improvement over the21/1.4 lux. Shooting 21mm is basically for environmental/street work. In my case I didn't go for the 21/1.4 lux because, despite its supposed image quality beyond my 21/3.4 super elmar (which is way lighter/smaller than the 21 1.4 lux), I rarely when out and about using my M10 as a zone shooter have need for such a fast lens.

 

Well, the Summilux-M 21mm ASPH, in addition to being a quite large and heavy lens, uses quite unusual, costly filters, and, if the hood is damaged, it is quite expensive to replace. (The hood also acts as the filter holder.) Optically, the Summilux has considerable compromises, compared to more-modern 21mm lenses. Astigmatism and field curvature are both considerable. The distortion is of the complex wave type, strong barrel in the center, and strong pincushion at the edges and in the corners. As I see it, the Summilux-M 21 ASPH is very much an “character” lens, which is not a bad thing, just very different from an APO Summicron. 

 

[lct]

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Edited June 1, 2024 by lct

[o2mpx]

Leica has produced a number of Apo lenses where their MTF’s read like a bunch of flat lines. If the SL has such a range, why not complete it for the M?

Almost all reviewers focus on performance wide open, being a landscape shooter, looking for contrast, tonal accuracy etc., I would rather know if mid apertures are used, are non-apo lenses, particularly those without the strong “dreamy characters”, comparable to an apo lens in mid aperture?

Edited June 2, 2024 by o2mpx

[lct]

9 minutes ago, o2mpx said:

[...] I would rather know if mid apertures are used, are non-apo lenses, particularly those without the strong “dreamy characters”, comparable to an apo lens in mid aperture?

Not sure if you're expecting an answer but as far as my M-mount lenses are concerned i don't see big differences at mid aperture between "apo" and "asph" lenses, even with the best lenses having neither designation. For example Summicron 50/2 apo and Planar 50/2 or Apo-Telyt 135/3.4 and Tele-Elmar 135/4. As far as 21mm lenses are concerned, Leica has never made an "apo" M version AFAIK but at the centre of the frame, an early lens like the Super-Angulon 21/3.4 looks as sharp as the Super Elmar 21/3.4 asph if not sometimes sharper.

[jankap]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb lct:

Not sure if you're expecting an answer but as far as my M-mount lenses are concerned i don't see big differences at mid aperture between "apo" and "asph" lenses, even with the best lenses having neither designation. 

Perhaps, if you take pictures of brick walls.😀

The term asph is more or less marketing bound. It is a design property only. The term apo is the promise of a certain quality. But, how apo is apo, is it defined?

[jankap]

Is the Zuiko 21mm f/2 for full frame cameras?

If not, it is unfair to compare its dimensions with the Elmarit.

[lct]

As fair as doing a mere search on Google or elsewhere.

Edited June 2, 2024 by lct

[Bikie John]

2 hours ago, jankap said:

Is the Zuiko 21mm f/2 for full frame cameras?

If not, it is unfair to compare its dimensions with the Elmarit.

It is from the Olympus OM system of 35mm film SLR cameras. So if that is what you mean by "full frame", yes, it is. And it is a fair comparison.

Olympus made a lot of lovely small lenses (and bodies). The 21/2 was very highly regarded, I believe.

John

[jankap]

OK, thanks. I remember, Olympus as a producer of fourth/third cameras.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[RexGig0]

3 hours ago, jankap said:

OK, thanks. I remember, Olympus as a producer of fourth/third cameras.

Yet again, I am made to feel old. 😉 I did not use film-era Olympus cameras, but my wife certainly did. (In the digital era, she opted for Nikon F-mount.) Yes, Olympus made 35mm film cameras, and some very-highly-regarded “full-frame” lenses for them. Until very recently, “OM” was understood to mean this system. 

Edited June 2, 2024 by RexGig0